Refrigerant for hybrids

The refrigerant is the usual I think, BUT the oil that Toyota uses in the Prius is special. I would think long-and-hard before adding the stuff you got, there's been a few people here that fired something in and had an expensive repair.

Either ensure the refrigerant is the right type AND has no oil, or safer: just get a dealership to deal with it.

 

Added the cheap r134a from walmart. It's been 6 months no issues. AC nice and cold

 

All r134a refrigerant is the same. But if you buy refrigerant WITH THE WRONG OIL ADDED you can mess up the electric compressor, but it may take 6-12 months for it to fail. Most DIY "recharge cans" that contain oil you buy at FLAPS say on the back in fine print "not for use on Hybrid cars". Best to take your car to someone who knows Hybrid AC systems. We replace a lot of compressors, usually about a year after someone was in an accident and the body shop "took care of fixing the AC", yeah, they took care of it alright by contaminating it with AC oils from regular cars.

 

There are very few independant repairers that can afford a machine specifically for use with R134a and the NipponDenso 11 compressor oil. The reason for this oil is that it is non conductive, not for compressor life, but for ground fault protection of the HV system. (Which equates to not being killed by your hybrid)
Unfortunately, most prii I work on have been contaminated with PAG or Ester oil. It may account for the occasional ground fault errors I see in some cars, although I haven't seen enough of it to positively draw the connection. It is the info I have from training.

 

We have a 2010 Prius which takes R134a with ND11 oil. My wife called two shops (one her cousin) who both said the 2010 does not use anything special. That the special whatever (I did not hear the conversation) started later. Now I'm confused. Do later Prius' use a different refrigerant?
We must have a slow leak. Can refrigerant be added without adding oil?

 

I wouldn't rely on their opinion, check with a dealership. I did a read through the 3rd gen documentation I have, did not find a spec on what the oil should be, but did see this:

 

Yes.

All 2G and 3G Prius use the special ND-11 compressor oil. You can use R-134a refrigerant that does not contain any oil.

 

Thanks. But a little confusing. I thought ND11 is the special oil for electric compressors, not the "conventional" oil. Maybe I am reading wrong?

 

Yeah if Patrick is correct there must be typo in repair manual. I'm clueless, just know what I'm reading/hearing. My take: tread cautiously. If it's a case of avoiding dealership to save $100 or so, is it worth it?

 

Ok, found another section, regarding Air Conditioner Pressure Sensor Replacement, and it spec's very clearly the oil to use is ND-OIL11.

And another, on Air Conditioner Inspect and Recharge, might help.

 

I talked to three private shops and two dealer service shops and they all said the same thing. They don't do anything special (about the oil).

 

They are in violation of federal epa law, regarding the service and storage of automotive refrigerants.

 

After my AC stopped working, I did a lot of research on this topic. What I found out was: Yes, Generation 2 and beyond Priuses require r134 refrigerant WITHOUT PAG oil or ester oil or dyes. ND11 oil is fine. The oil works to seal leaks. The problem with the most oils is that they are not compatible with the electric system. You can have electric problems due to the slightly flammable oil and ruin your whole ac system. That doesn't mean it will happen, but very well might. My online research showed that this information is not common knowledge even among mechanics. Your options are to go to a certified Toyota mechanic or mechanic familiar with hybrids or get your own refrigerate making sure it does not have PAG or ester oil or dye. I found this hard to find until I found this post, the original post (thanks giperbolic!), and the searched hyb-r134a. I found it on amazon, ebay and another online automotive dealer.

After reading what I have read, I would NOT put regular r-134 in my car. If you do have a leak and need a good seal you can purchase interdynamics r-134a hybrid vehicle compressor refrigerant oil and put that in before the refrigerant. It is the ND11 oil that is ok to use.

 

SegoC,

Not exactly correct. ND-11 oil is not "fine", it is the ONLY oil Toyota authorizes and that has been tested for dielectric constant (meaning non-conductive).

There is no such thing as "Hybrid" refrigerant R-134a in terms of being specific for Hybrid Vehicles, it is the OIL that is specific to hybrid vehicles with electric compressors (Prii). I get what "ACPRO" is advertising and reading the can specifically states it is the oil that is hybrid vehicle compatible for the reasons mentioned.

One major problem if post-R12 systems is that the oil volume in the system can make or break the performance and durability, much less using the wrong oil. It is IMPOSSIBLE to know how much oil remains in an AC system after component replacement, so there are two options: Flush it all out and start over (best and most costly option) or Guess how much you need to add back and pray.

There are industry accepted practices for gauging the oil remaining, but because most AC techs are in the BAD habit of simply adding oil EVERY TIME they service an AC system, it is more likely than not a vehicle's AC system has WAY too much oil in it rather than not enough.

 

Simplest route, and likely cheapest in the long run, just leave this one to Toyota Tech's.

 

Given the hard it must be to translate massively technical information between languages as dissimilar as Japanese and English, I'm always amazed at how well the English versions of the Toyota manuals avoid even little mistakes.

This seems like it probably was one. I can imagine someone in the translation department following a rule that, any time the compressor oil is mentioned, it has to be with a note specifying the exact ND11 right stuff, and just not noticing that this particular mention was in a passage talking about oil that's not the right stuff.

That'd be pretty easy to do ... the poor translators can't get by with just knowing both languages well, but have to be completely following along the engineers' train of thought, understand which examples are intended as counterexamples, etc., and then know how to make that come through in the translation. The job would scare me and I'm fearless....

-Chap

 

Yeah sounds likely.

 

Looking for clarity here. I just bought a used 2005 Prius and the car needs A/C charge. There is zero refrigerant in the line. I checked the line valve, pressed it and no hiss, or pressure there. Either there is a big leak, slow leak, I don't know, but prefer to just try a quick charge and see how long it lasts with the 134a refrigerant.

So to my understanding, there is the refrigerant that I can put into the low pressure value, and then there is separate oil for the compressor as well? Also, some of the 134a has some oil in it or other additives? I assume it is best to find a brand that has no oil in the 134a?

Then the compressor oil needs to be a special non conductive ND11? I am not sure where that goes in, or even if that is needed.

I know refrigerants do seem to leak in most cars over time.

The 134a stuff at the auto parts store can't be used from what I understand because it has oil additives?

I am a do it yourself type of person. Anyone know the process here?