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Refrigerant Replacement

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by C-in-DC, Apr 10, 2023.

  1. C-in-DC

    C-in-DC Member

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    Realize this topic has been discussed over and over again but there appears to be one specific difference in my case.

    The refrigerant line to my 2010 prius broke off from the compressor when it was hit by mistake while swapping the engine. The refrigerant leaked out completely and the screw holding the line in place on top of the compressor also broke off. A replacement screw was installed with the hose again at the top of the compressor.

    Is there a sealant required where the refrigerant line connects to the top of the compressor? When reinstalling the refrigerant should the compressor be vacuumed out first? Should a vacuum pump be used? Should the installation be with all new lubricant PAG 100? Could AC gauges be used without a vacuum pump?
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    @lech auto air conditionin can give more specific advice. I can preview a few points:

    The only 'sealant' where the line attaches should be an O ring. The one on the suction line is a 13.4 mm ID, 18.2 mm OD, 90099-14121. The one on the discharge line is, umm, shown on this drawing but not labeled, oops. The drawing also doesn't clearly show that it's included with the line if you bought a new line, but I'm guessing it is.

    If there is any kind of mechanical damage on the compressor mating surface such that the O ring would not seal there, you're not likely going to find any 'sealant' that could improve matters. Just replace whatever broke and then put it together with the right O rings.

    [​IMG]

    Yes, the entire system must be evacuated before you add refrigerant, especially as it may have been open to the air for a while after the line broke. Also, you should replace the receiver dryer (88474 in that drawing).

    Yes, a good vacuum pump made for A/C work is the only way to draw a sufficient vacuum.

    You might need to add some new lubricant, but do not allow PAG oil anywhere near the car. Use Denso ND-Oil 11 or some other lubricant guaranteed safe for the electric compressor.

    If any PAG oil has been added already, all might not be lost. There was an article suggesting that if caught quickly enough, just replacing the compressor and HECAT H-1000 flushing all the rest of the system might save the day.
     
  3. C-in-DC

    C-in-DC Member

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    When I checked with the dealer they said they don’t sell the refrigerant. Perhaps they sell ND-oil 11. I was trying to find the o-ring on Toyotas page but I couldn’t find the part number.

    This is getting kicked to a real mechanic. Will definitely mess this up if I try plus the tools aren’t something that can be useful in the future. I just want to provide any Toyota specific stuff to the shop.
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The refrigerant, straight R134a, is easy to buy other places; just make sure it really is straight, not helpfully mixed with the wrong oil or anything.

    The thing about ND-Oil 11, I seem to recall, is it is only sold in tins of more than you want, for more money than you want to spend. So a shop that already has some is a better deal. There may be alternative oils that claim to be hybrid-compressor safe (if you trust them), available in smaller quantities and prices.
     
  5. C-in-DC

    C-in-DC Member

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    Dealership doesn’t sell ND oil-11. I guess I’ll look at eBay or Amazon if the shop doesn’t have it.
    Dealership receiver drier is around $250. I see some on EBay but the price looks too good to be true.
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Some dealerships sell at a discount from the list price, which is $171.77.

    Your dealership seems to like the idea of marking up from the list price.

    Nice work if you can get it.
     
  7. lech auto air conditionin

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    I’m reading this on the fly while I’m driving between jobs so if I leave something out forgive me and if I get bad voice to text errors in poor word usage, forgive me I have no time to watch this while driving or edit.

    Remember, there is a seal on the other side of the expansion valve connected to the Evaporator that’s not shown in the diagram.
    Be careful on some alternatives to ND 11 some guys are trying to release universal electric compressor oil that is either of a higher or lower Viscosity not meant for the compressor, but it will still work. Just like if your engine requires zero20 viscosity and you put in 2050 viscosity we know the engine will turn over and it will run down the road but those of you who no engine and lubrication problems that are caused by too thick viscosity we know what will happen in the long run the same goes the other way around.

    Some of these so-called universal electric compressor oils are manufactured from vegetable stock, which is a cheap alternative of Esther, based lubricant that break down easily.
    Some of them produced or shipped in plastic bottles moisture absolutely absorbs and goes through plastic for stocked items. That’s been many months on a shelf, stored in a warehouse..

    This is why I good quality POE oil. A.k.a. Esther are only shipped in metal containers..

    Very very very rarely. I have only once seen a leak from the actual compressor housing on a Prius where the different components of the shell that are assembled meet together, actually looked at the casing itself.

    For the people who, unfortunately get the very small tiny, universal O-ring kits. They often contain O-rings that are just a few thousand smaller or a few thousand thicker sometimes too thick..

    In both cases, the seal, O ring me not leak when you initially put it on, but as it ages to thin of an O-ring will leak later on under a certain pressure, especially as it ages, and it loses its elasticity.

    In the other scenario, too thick of an O-ring can go on get damaged as it is inserted,

    or later, it will pass all test right now, but with thermal cycling expansion and contraction of metal and aging of the O-ring where the seal has been damaged. Will leak later..
    In every example the technician thinks he’s done a great job because it did not leak while I was sitting there right in front of him.
    But ends up as a costly repair for the customer months or years later. There’s those who don’t care if it’s a costly repairs for the customer months or years later so long as they collected money and got the car out the door but that’s the discussion for a different time..
     
  8. C-in-DC

    C-in-DC Member

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    the refrigerant leaked out because I hit the high pressure line on top of the compressor and the screw broke off. I was able to extract the screw. I’ve bought the o-ring. The missing link is whether I need the oil to recharge the refrigerant. Looks like I do but I’m sure there is no independent mechanic that would stock it in his shop. I’ll call around the Japanese auto service places in my area….
     
  9. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    You might consider using Refrigeration Technologies RT200R Nylog- Gasket/Thread Sealant.

     
  10. C-in-DC

    C-in-DC Member

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    I got quoted $1300 parts and labor for: 1. Changing the receiver drier. 2. Charging the refrigerant. 3. Installing a new o-ring. Original quote I got was for $150 from a guy who knows nothing about Toyotas.
     
  11. lech auto air conditionin

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    the blue NYLOG for POE oil & HFO refrigerant like r134 r410 r1234yf . Red NYLOG is for CFC Refrigerant like r12 & r22 with mineral oil

    you can get it online at True Tech Tools. You get a additional 8% off the price if you use my promo code for my company LECHAIR all one word all capital letters you put it in the coupon code box when you check out and it will re-calculate and reduce 8% off the price.

    Nylog Blue
     
    #11 lech auto air conditionin, Apr 13, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2023
    jzchen and Georgina Rudkus like this.
  12. C-in-DC

    C-in-DC Member

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    Do you have a diagram of the seal at the expansion valve at evaporator you’re referring to? I see a diagram that appears to be behind the dash in the cabin behind the fire wall.
     
  13. lech auto air conditionin

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    No, I do not have a diagram, but I know they are available and probably if you, Google search expansion valve O-rings for that particular year make model somebody should have posted something for sale online
     
  14. C-in-DC

    C-in-DC Member

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    Thank you for sharing your promo code.

    I had to drive without defrost earlier today. Ended up using it with the ac button during heavy rains. Have i destroyed the compressor now?

    I see this lubricant needs to be applied when I try to fully seal the high pressure line back to the compressor. Should this be used when changing the receiver drier?

    should I use the vacuum pump to evacuate moisture in the compressor after sealing the hose back to the compressor? Should the receiver drier be replaced before or after?
    Is there a service manual procedure for a new compressor I can follow? @Mendel Leisk


    I intend to clean the system out and change the receiver drier before taking it to a mechanic to install the refrigerant. I can rent a vacuum pump for $20 a day here. Based on @lech auto air conditionin posts I assume Poe oil can be used in lieu of nd-11. Good or bad assumption?
     
  15. C-in-DC

    C-in-DC Member

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    I didn’t disturb anything at the expansion valve or anything near the evaporator. Would that valve need to be replaced along with the receiver drier because there’s no longer refrigerant?
     
  16. lech auto air conditionin

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    NYLOG on all orings Even for drier plug.
    Leave vacuum pump on overnight
    drier sock is the vary last thing you install. DO NOT OPEN THE PACKAGE UNTIL THE VARY LAST MINUTE YOU GOING TO INSERT into tube. the desiccant works really fast immediately removing water (moisture/humidity) right out of the air. Then turn on vacuum pump let that baby suck start a Harley over night at least.

    ND-11 made by Denso is POE oil made for electric compressors.

    if you get any other POE oil just make sure it says made for electric compressors.

    add oil last thing just before turning on vacuum pump. The POE oil is EXTREMELY Hydroscopic. Like desiccant the second you remove the cap on the can is starts removing moisture out of the air. Just throw the rest away in the can. Just the air replacement for the liquid poured out fills inside of can with moisture. Contaminated the POE oil.

    that’s why DENSO sells only metal cans that come with condenser with only enough oil for that one item.

    other POE oil manufacturers only sell it in foil bags with one way valve or on one way injunction tube one use only. Because the oil is so hydroscopic.
     
    #16 lech auto air conditionin, Apr 23, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2023
  17. lech auto air conditionin

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    on a compressor burn out when you have burnt oil black or gray with metal flakes then you replace expansion valve.

    when old compressor removed pour out old oil if clean and clear you are ok . Don’t need to replace expansion valve. If black with metal flakes should flush out evaporator to .
     
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I "think" this encompasses it. Let me know if there's more needed, and I can dig.
     

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  19. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    It's hygroscopic, not hydroscopic. Big difference!
     
  20. lech auto air conditionin

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    That’s the problem with relying on voice to text and not proofreading