Refueling problem poll for all Prius owners

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by qbee42, Jun 30, 2008.

?
  1. I always have problems

    6 vote(s)
    3.0%
  2. I frequently have problems

    16 vote(s)
    7.9%
  3. I sometimes have problems

    18 vote(s)
    8.9%
  4. I occasionally have problems

    46 vote(s)
    22.7%
  5. I never have problems

    117 vote(s)
    57.6%
  1. rkskeet

    rkskeet New Member

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    Owner of an 08 Prius since Mar this year. No problems to date although I have read many threads telling of not so pleasant fill up experiences. I pump the gas slowly and don't overfill once the pump clicks off.. Seems to work for me..:)
     
  2. thecoook

    thecoook Junior Member

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    The first one or two fill-ups were difficult, then I decided to manually hold the nozzle valve in a slow pour position until it clicked, then no more. Haven't had a problem since. Fill the car at 2 pips, and usually end up getting about 9 gallons in. Gives me time to answer people's questions about the car. So far no negative comments from Bubba's and other Bulldozer owners, not that I'd care.
     
  3. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    I've had instances in the past where the tank "burped" out gas on me, but that was from trying to cram an extra 2 gallons or so after the first click. After I learned not to do that (I know, I'm slow sometimes), no problems. So in the present and for poll purposes, I voted "never."
     
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    That's one of the problems with polls. You can cover all of the special cases, or you can have a reasonable number of options, but not both.

    Tom
     
  5. ZC1

    ZC1 Junior Prius Owner

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    Burping from cramming gas should not count or be a spot on the poll.
    My pickup truck barfs gas if I cram too much too fast and it's nearly 10 years old, does that mean it has a bladder? (ah...no)

    As for my Prius, insert nozzle fully, lock on HIGH and watch the numbers rise. It clicks, wait 3 seconds, pull it out, not even a sound or a scent from the fill tube EVER. (admittedly it's only 6 fillups so far)
    I should have the problem since my car is new.

    Let's screw this up a bit, lets...
    Fill the tank on HIGH, then click off another half gallon. Still no indication anything is amiss.

    Darn it.
    I want my gas bladder recall notice too....! (Not)

    ZC1
     
  6. jtlmd

    jtlmd New Member

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    I agree that the wise way to go is method (1)

    (1) Normal Filling: insert gasoline nozzle as far as it will go, fill at the wide open setting, let the automatic nozzle shutoff do its thing, then GET OUT OF THERE with whatever volume you have taken in.

    From my reading and talking to other owners, it is my guess that the problems come for the 34% of people in the current poll (those not in the 'never have problem' category) if they attempt either of the two "tricks" that are pretty well known:

    (2) Sneak Filling: Putting gasoline nozzle all the way in and then manually operating the valve at the lowest possible flow rate; this takes a long time but after the nozzle 'clicks off', attempts at further fuel delivery are made at the lowest possible flow rate WITHOUT WITHDRAWING THE NOZZLE, until no more fuel can be infused.

    (3) Burping: Putting the nozzle in, using any setting of the valve, letting the automatic nozzle shutoff do its thing, then REMOVING the nozzle completely from the filler neck and waiting for some period (e.g. ten to thirty seconds) before reinserting and infusing more fuel. Variants of this include rocking the car before reinsertion, bouncing the car up and down, doing various chants, etc. etc. It is my understanding that Burping differs from Sneak Filling because Burping allows the fuel system to depressurize before further infusion attempts are made.

    I think that both ploys (2) and (3) qualify as Overfilling and the Toyota Technical Training Manual, Section 3, specifically points out that overfilling can damage the vapor recovery system, etc.,etc.,etc. and lead to major component replacement tasks. I am told that damage from overfilling is NOT covered by Toyota warranty. What a great Catch-22.

    What really irritates me is that Sneak Filling is what has caused gasoline to ejaculate from my filler neck after removing the nozzle, and I mean all over the side of car and my pants leg. Had some moron walked by with a lighted cigarette I would not be typing this message..... What is even more irritating is that my DEALER instructed me to sneak fill the bladder. Bad Advice and a great way to provoke a nasty legal fight if one or more folks get burned or killed in some service station driveway after sneak filling.

    What new owners are not told anywhere in the OM, or anywhere else, is that trying to maximize the filling of the Prius fuel bladder is unlike "topping off" the conventional gasoline tank in, say, a 1983 Chevy truck. The latter system is NOT isolated and pressurized during filling, there is no "O-ring" snugly sealing around the filler nozzle, and the fuel receiver comprises a simple tube that runs into a simple metal tank, period. I defy anybody to look at a diagram of the Rube Goldberg Prius fuel system and tell me that it is "simple" !! There are numerous feedback loops, valves, vent lines, chambers, etc. etc. etc. Misunderstanding about "topping off" is the root of the problems with gasoline shooting out of Prius filler necks, damage to EVAP systems, etc. Just my opinion. Shame on Toyota for not publishing a simple one-page guide to proper refueling that clarifies all of these issues with either FAQ format or some plain English bullet points. Don't tell me this is covered in the OM because it sure ain't....not in my 2009 OM at least. I submitted to my dealer a draft of a nine-point Information Sheet for his new Prius owners entitled "Refueling Your Prius". I seriously doubt that Toyota Corporate or the lawyers will allow the dealership to hand it out.

    Good Luck to everybody !

    JTL
     
  7. orenf

    orenf New Member

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    jtlmd:

    You realize that (for those of us experiencing problems) putting anywhere between 0 (pump clicks off after a second) and 2 gallons each time we refuel is not really practical?

    Methods (2) and (3) can be used safely one assumes that (a) one has 2 gallons left in the tank and (b) the tank can hold 10 gallons. These assumptions have nothing to do with reality, they serve as a safety buffer from over-filling. If your gauge is blinking then it should be safe to put in 6-8 gallons. If the pump clicks before it reaches that volume, I keep pumping. If it clicks any time after 6 gallons, I stop.


     
  8. BDDave

    BDDave New Member

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    I don't get the idea of "putting in the nozzle all the way or as far as it will go". It seems like doing this will make the nozzle shut off sooner because it is farther into the tank. I put the nozzle in the least I can so it won't fall out. This means I just hook the last section of the spring on the nozzle oner the filler neck. I then set the auto fill feature to the slowest setting and when it clicks off I'm done. I've never had a problem with premature shut offs, etc., and the quantity put in is always consistant. :)
     
  9. blamy

    blamy Member

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    No Problem I just fill it till it clicks off then round up to the dollar. You can't go wrong and if you do you can bet it wasn't your fault; it was the pump's!
     
  10. okiebutnotfrommuskogee

    okiebutnotfrommuskogee Senior Member

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    I always fill-up at two or three pips, use slow fill and don't try after the first click-off. I have only had one issue of the pump stopping too soon and it was probably the fault of the pump it's self.
     
  11. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    i put "never have problems" because after 2 Pri's, 70,000 miles and upteen fillups, i have never spilled a drop...(once had a gurgle, but never pulled the nozzle out...waited for it to subside and no consequences.)

    a few times, the pump stopped short of full (i never fill without knowing ahead of time about how much gas i need to fill to prior level) but that is most likely the pump, not the car. have had the pump stop short on probably every car i have owned in the past 15 years.... prior to that before unleaded i dont remember.
     
  12. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    vapor recovery does not work properly if you do not do this. you are venting toxicity to the air your children breath is all
     
  13. BDDave

    BDDave New Member

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    I don't think the pumps we have here in the midwest have the "vapor recovery" system on them. Just a straight nozzle into the tank.
     
  14. john_dough

    john_dough New Member

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    This poll is a great idea and should provide useful info over time--one improvement might be to solicit inputs from folks with at least 5000 or 10000 miles on the car.
     
  15. v_schulz

    v_schulz New Member

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    I frequently have problems with premature shut off. Today, I decided to try to fill up, I had 4 "pips" left, but since the price of fuel had dropped I figured I'd buy gas anyway. It let me put in 1.88 gallons. It didn't even register another "pip"-so I still have 4 "pips". Grrr. 1.88 gallons would not even be enough to get me to and from work.

    This has happened many times, both when the engine was cold and warm (after 60 miles of freeway driving), and when the air temp was warm or cool. (I bought the car in March) Today it is 70 F.

    It does not seem to be specific to a certain pump at the gas station, but it may be specific to that station. I tend to fill up at that station, because it is on my way to work and always has the lowest price.

    Any hints/ideas?

    -V
     
  16. john_dough

    john_dough New Member

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    V Schulz---your problem description matches my own experience with my 2008, 3000 miles. I'm surprised how many people seem to think that switching pumps or slow filling, etc. is an acceptable solution. To me, the bladder design is flawed and needs fixing/replacing.
     
  17. xsmatt81

    xsmatt81 non-AARP Member

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    no problems as in fuel flowing out.

    but just the usual unpredictable nature of the fuel bladder system..never know what amount you will get in.

    it's very weather dependent..coming into these colder months..i expect less in the tank.

    they will fix this Iam sure. the 09 Camry hybrid has a normal tank system with all the emission numbers behind it..but it holds exactly the amount of fuel that is stated.

    I could see how new prius owners who have not looked at the PDF of how the bladder works will get pissed when they only get 8.5 gallons into a near empty tank..when it should fill up to 12
     
  18. jtlmd

    jtlmd New Member

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    You realize that (for those of us experiencing problems) putting anywhere between 0 (pump clicks off after a second) and 2 gallons each time we refuel is not really practical?

    -------------------------------------------------

    I sure do realize that. And this is exactly why I think we should fill until the auto nozzle shuts off, then get out of the filler neck. Right then. Period. No packing, no pulsing, no topping, no pushing, no sneaking, no burping.
     
  19. jtlmd

    jtlmd New Member

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    I could see how new prius owners who have not looked at the PDF of how the bladder works...

    -----------------

    Which PDF are you referring to ?
     
  20. PaulHS

    PaulHS Member

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    Probably this one
     

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