Replaced the tires

Boy, you folks sure got the snow and ice. At least we're used to that sort of weather, the snow anyway. Sure hope it didn't put a damper on Christmas.

On ice, I really don't think an all-season is going to work that well. True, some test better than others, but as a group, they're just not built for those sort of conditions.

Here in Winnipeg, it can get icy in intersections, then the temps can drop to -30 C or colder. At those temps, road salt stop working, so intersections have the habit of staying icy all winter.

I've had my Dunlop Graspic DS-2 studless winter tires for about a month now. Compared to studded tires I've used in the past, the Graspics have about 2/3 the ice traction.

The Graspic's are a lot easier to deal with when dry. They also seem to work a bit better in slush and dry snow, again compared to studded tires I've used in the past.

Hopefully, you won't have to worry about ice/snow for a long time.

 

Nope, not trying to be a "know it all," just stating a fact. Since winter here can last +4 months of the year, it only makes sense that we need all that $$$ snow-removal equipment.

On the other hand, if we had heat/humidity last +6 months, we'd be dropping like flies. Hard to believe but not too many folks around here have central A/C, since at the most they'll use it for 2 months of the year. In a record-breaking hot summer, maybe 3 months of the year.

Even parts of South Texas got snow and ice. All you can do when you get your every-6-years (or in the case of Texas every 100 years) snowfall is to stay home for a day or two and sit it out. I know I sure would.

Actually, up here I wouldn't mind hibernating from November until March. If bears can do it, how hard can it be?? :lol:

 

I am going to put Falken ZE512 tires on tomorrow. It rated the highest on Consumer Report. A local tire dealer charged $230 for all four, much less than chain store (surprise.)

Would like 195/60R15 (88H) size. Is there a way to re-calibrate the odometer, even by dealer? If not I probably just get 185/65R15 (88H) the stock size.

 

Yesterday it rained in Fargo! We've had some pretty cold weather, so the ground is frozen solid, and the rain turned to ice on all the roads. Driving downtown traffic was slow, but my Prius with the HydroEdge tires did fine.

Coming home was another matter. The air temperature had risen to near the freezing point (extremely warm for the end of December) and now we had a solid layer of ice over super-frozen pavement, topped by a thin layer of water.

I took a left turn at 4 or 5 mph and drove straight into the curb of the intersection corner. Neither ABS nor VSC kicked in. I presume that, because there was no friction whatsoever, all the wheels stopped at once as I applied the brakes, and the electronics just thought the car was stopped. I did not have the presence of mind to pump the brakes.

Incidentally, in the parking lot I could hardly stand. Earlier, it had been normal glare-ice slippery, but now it was the twilight zone of high-school physics: there was no friction at all between your feet and the ground. I was clinging to the door handles and any other protrusion as I scrapped the ice off the windows and windshield.

Once my front wheels went up onto the berm there was traction, and I was able to regain control, narrowly miss the fire hydrant I had been heading straight towards, finish my turn, and drive the rest of the way home at about 12 mph.

It got cold again overnight, so now it's normal ice again. Still treacherous, but back to the real world where there is at least a tiny bit of friction.

 

I wonder if anything short of studs or chains could have performed in that situation!

 

That thin layer of water on top of ice is when it's most dangerous. We've had those conditions several times so far this winter in Winnipeg, and it sux. I just know I'm going to get rear ended at a red light, or have some fool in a 4WD slide into me.

That said, my Dunlop Graspic DS-2 studless winter tires work very well under those conditions. Their soft, squishy, heavily siped treads seem to push the water aside and really grip the ice.

In an empty parking lot, I've had to push the speed up to 80 km/h and REALLY yank the wheel to kick in the VSC. Otherwise, at sane speeds, the Graspic's grip very well. I'm very pleased with them for use as a dedicated winter tire.

Studded tires would also work well under those conditions. My parents have a 2003 Buick LeSabre with Cooper WeatherMaster ST-2 studded winter tires, and they grip extremely well on frozen slush, watery ice, and glare ice.

It's a tough call to invest in dedicated winter tires. If you have a climate like Manitoba, or anywhere on the Prairies, also ND/SD and mountain areas of the USA, they are a good investment. I'd never run all-season tires in winter again.

Under conditions that Daniel mentioned, forget about VSC or ABS. With traction as close to theoretical "zero" as possible, the VSC and ABS may only lull you into a false sense of security.

I once watched a sand truck with chains sanding a hill near Park City, Utah. Similar conditions too. A transport truck had stopped to chain up, and as us helpless motorists watched, even from a dead stop the transport slowly started to slide with the slight incline towards the sanding truck. The trucker had his brakes on but it didn't matter.

It wasn't that big of a collision, maybe 15 MPH at impact, but it pushed the sand truck against the berm of the chain-up area and trapped the driver. I had studded Nokian's on my 1992 Honda Prelude SR, but decided to wait for the sanding trucks. You couldn't even stand, it was so icy.

 

I used studded tires on my Civic, and got rear-ended once when I stopped at a slippery intersection and the guy behind me didn't. But the Prius handled so much better than the Civic last winter (even with the OEM tires) that I didn't think I needed them.

Conditions like we had on Thursday happen once every few years here. On "normal" slippery, the Prius does just fine.

 

Thanks for sending that weather this way today. :x

It hit while I was out shopping. So I got to witness the heated mirrors in action. They melted the fresh ice off surprisingly fast. Too bad that isn't available for the little stick-on blind-spot mirrors as well.

Anywho, the HydroEdges did pretty well on both the thick slush on the main roads and the fresh nasty ice on the side roads. I took it slower than usual, of course. But there was no concern ever of losing traction, no ABS or VSC. Acceleration even worked well. So I'm quite happy.

 

John1701:
I'd like to know what tire pressure your running in your Hydroedge tires, as I have the same tires and would like to know what you found to be the best.
Thanks,
Clint

 

I've been running 44/42 for 10,000 miles now.

http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-maintain03.htm#Tires ...provides a whole bunch of details on my experiences with the HydroEdges.

 

Here are some assorted remarks from here and there about Nokian WR's
They are the only all-seson tires to win Finland's snow/ice approval.

Go to
www.nokiantyres.com for their website. I got P185/65HR15 stock#443434
@ $89.95 each+$8.50 mount &balance. The max pressure is I think 55lb
enough higher than the OEM's so there is no concern re running @ 44/42
or whatever. They are reasonably quiet are spot-on for odometer
readings, do not hydroplane and are great on snow/ice/slush. I will
abandon my previous practice of summer tires on the alloy rims and
winter tires on steel rims and keep these on the alloys all year. If
I can be of any further help let me know. Peace, Ammiel


I just went out ito the bitter cold to look at the tires.Wear 420 tractionA tempA
max load 1235# maxpressure 51# (I think). They are product code
T443432 rated 88H. 'nokiantyres.com' (note sp) to get your local dealer.
I paid $398 before tax out the door. I have tried them in downpours, dry, and ice. They are truly outstanding and quiet. I have not had enough snow to comment. Once I found 8 inches of slush on wet ice and drove onto that uphill and stopped. That was so slick the front tires just turned slowly without engaging the traction control. I had to rock D-R and turn the steering to get out, but get out I did saving me the embarassment of getting stuck in an alley beside the local beer distributor. I think I have solved the 8 wheel 8 tire problem. Will be selling the OEM tire with 1700 gentle 'break in" miles after the next snow.
If you're in the snow belt, I recomment Nokian WR's. It is an H rated tire with VERY GOOD snow traction, EXCELLENT wet handling, EXCELLENT dry handling (MUCH better than stock). You can keep 'em on all year too! Also it is VERY quiet. Another good tire (based on reviews) is the Goodyear triple tread but they don't have it in 185/65/15 yet. You'd have to go to 195/60/15. Last but not least is the Michelin hydroedge (some complain of noise with this tire). Check out

www.nokiantires.com
Agree with Nokian WR's. Put them on alloy wheels leave them on all year (anybody want to buy OEM's with 700 mi?) Had them since 12/03 25k very happy and they *are* LRR. My avg is 48mpg in Northeast.
_________________

 

8) ammiel,

You forgot about the Goodyear Assurance Comfort Tread. I have them on my 04 and had no problem getting around here in Omaha during this last week of rain, sleet, and ice then 14 inches of snow.

So in my humble opinion, these tires have performance outstandingly.

Ben

 

I've only recently joined the group, and the ice/snow season is over for another year, but just a data point on those Michelin Harmony tires..

Two years ago, I got a set of 4 for my Corolla in October, and part of the reason I picked the Harmony vs. the Hydroedge was the higher winter traction rating of the Harmony (9 out of 10; only the pure winter tires got a full 10/10 rating for winter traction). I was hoping that I might be able to forego putting on snow tires that winter since my winter tires (Toyo Observe X-10s with the "MicroBit" walnut shell compound) were on their 5th or 6th season and low on tread and due to be replaced but I didn't want to have to spend on both 3 season and winter tires in the same year..

Anyways, to make a long story short, living in Ottawa where snow and ice go hand in hand, after the first snowfall that year, the roads also iced up and I slid through an intersection on tires that were barely 2 months old and that had a 9 out of 10 rating for winter traction... So, either the difference between a 9 rating and a 10 rating is absolutely huge, or they need to add a category for ice traction (I would rate it about a 2- yes, they had some traction in ice and snow, but you had to go *really* slow...).. I swapped those tires out for my old Toyos that very night and even old and worn, I could still drive fairly aggressively, and I *never* slid in the ice or snow on those Toyos..

Back in the spring, I put the Harmonys back on and they proved to be great handlers for the rest of the year- although they didn't rate as highly as the Hydroedge for wet traction, I still found the Harmonys superb- you really have to try hard to get them to hydroplane and even then, you get control back almost instantly.

For winter conditions that are less severe and where ice is not a major factor, the Harmony/Hydroedge are probably perfectly sufficient for year-round use, but if you do have ice where you live, I'd definitely recommend an ice tire... Now, my Corolla didn't have traction control, so that might have made a difference with those Harmonys, but after this experience, as long as I'm living in Canada or anywhere where there's a lot of ice in the winter, I would never ever go without a real set of winter tires again.

 

Here in Winnipeg my observations are the same as yours in Ottawa. Yeah, you really got the ice and snow this winter too, didn't you?

I think a few points should be brought up regarding this "rating" of tires under different conditions.

First of all, the tire manufacturer appears to assign their internal "rating" system based on subjective advertising needs. That is, they don't have to explain how they rate or what standards they follow.

Second of all, the tire manufacturer will have you believe that *all* of their tires are the greatest on Planet Earth. Again this is based on smart marketing and you have to use some judgement and common sense, also a lot of research.

Much like how the Integrity my Prius used to have and the Michelin Harmony I used to replace them with both had "M+S" ratings. That M+S is dangerous bulls*** marketing but there is no actual law forbidding its use.

I would rate both the Integrity and Harmony the same wrt snow/ice traction: the s***s. If you really want a contrast, drive back into your garage and slap on new Dunlop Graspic DS-2 winter tires and go for a spin again. The difference is night and day, *no* more spinning!

A "real" winter-rated tire must have the RMA "snowflake" symbol on the sidewall which indicates it has superior winter traction over an "all season" tire. Some are better than others though, as some "snowflake" tires emphasize dry road performance over snow/ice.

I've found Tire Rack to provide good ratings and customer comments. I suppose some may argue that Tire Rack has a vested interest in this as the more tire/wheel packages they sell the more money they make. That may be partly true.

Just this winter the Province of Quebec mandated winter tires due to some nasty accidents and resultant lawsuits. You could always run studded winter tires in Quebec but there was never a law requiring a "certified" winter tire until recently. Sweden mandates a "certified" winter tire for winter operation, they claim their road accident rates have dropped by 50%.

Ontario has been the holdout as they have prohibited studded tires due to some inane reason, but a recent spat of fatal winter crashes, lawsuits, and strongly-worded requests from the Ontario Provincial Police appear to have resulted in changes to the prohibition on studded tires. Ontario is also mulling over mandating winter tires too.

I personally would never run an "all season" tire on winter road conditions ever again. Despite improvements in "all season" tire technology, when you compare the best "all season" to the best winter tire (Dunlop Graspic DS-2, Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50, especially the factory-studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta 2), there is no fair comparison.

Swedish testing have confirmed that unless a "studless" winter tire is heavily worn down to the point the special tread is all gone, it will still provide superior snow/ice traction to a new "all season" tire.

We have covered this in previous threads, but there is still a lot of misinformation regarding what tires to safely use in winter conditions.

 

Here is one of the threads where we beat to death the winter tire thing:

http://priuschat.com/forums/installs-amp-r...eds-vt5276.html

 

Just wanted to thank everyone who posted on this thread; your detailed information in posting has been a big help in doing research.

I'm going in for the 5K service checkup, and have decided to switch the OEM tires for Michelin Hydroedges while I'm at it.

In Seattle, it's all rain and very, very little snow, which doesn't last long. (Though the entire city shuts down at over 2". To quote Jayne Cobb, "Hi-larious!" ) Seems perfect for the Hydroedge.

Finally, dumb question: anyone had problems taking a Prius in for a tire change at a standard tire dealership? (I.e., non-Toyota shop?) Anything special they need to know, outside of the usual "Here's how you start it, stop it, and shift."?

TIA!

 

Jeff,
I think you'll be pleased with your new tires. They really do well on wet surfaces. My car is tracking better on the freeway, too. I think I've taken about a 1 to 2 mpg hit, but for me, it's worth it.
I had my tires changed at a local independent shop. I could have gotten a better deal at costco, but I like to support small business, and rotation is free (and no-hassle) for the life of the tires. There's nothing unusual about changing tires other than the "how do you start this thing?" question.