Room for a few more ponies under the hood?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 24 2006, 02:05 PM) [snapback]337427[/snapback]</div>

I found an article on edmunds that had a few more details on the Prius GT. Didn't save the link, but it was fairly close to the top after googling Prius GT. Anyway, they claimed the engine was swapped with the 1.5 out of the Echo, the battery peak voltage was reprogrammed to be 550 instead of 500 as the two mods to get the power up by 37HP. Seems like an awful lot of work for that...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 24 2006, 02:05 PM) [snapback]337427[/snapback]</div>

Not that I'm really going to be doing this anytime soon, but I was thinking a turbo would compensate for thin air at high altitudes, and provide more power without affecting the gas consumption too much. What do you know that I don't?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 24 2006, 02:05 PM) [snapback]337427[/snapback]</div>

I actually think turbo'ing makes a lot of sense for this car. Think less of the peaky Saabs and something more like the low pressure turbos on some of the later Volvo models. Gives a broad power curve with no peakiness and driveability as you describe. I'd consider it, but the amount of fabrication required is way beyond my capabilities. Got a good friend with a machine shop?

 

Pinto Girl,

1. New Iridium spark plugs
2. Nology Hotwires
3. K & N air filter
4. K & N cold air intake
5. New duel exhaust system to improve air flow.

There can always be something done but I don’t think it would be worth it. I just enjoy toying with the idea “What if.†What if we did everything to improve performance of the battery, motor, ICE, aerodynamics, solar, and weight reductions via carbon fiber that could possibly be done, would we get a 200 mpg Prius that could be driven everyday as an EV for 100 miles per charge and at a moments notice go cross country using gas?

“What if,†them is big words.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Oct 24 2006, 11:23 AM) [snapback]337447[/snapback]</div>

Blitz Japan made a showcar turbo Prius in Japan for the 2004 Tokyo Auto Salon. Supposedly boosted the ICE HP to around 120ish. Not for sale now, if ever. Too bad.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pious @ Oct 24 2006, 02:52 PM) [snapback]337485[/snapback]</div>

Yes, it really seems to make sense to me. The autospeed article I read made it sound like a lot of trial and error and fabrication involved, but the end result turned out pretty sweet (they turbocharged a 1st gen Prius with a goal of maintaining economy while improving performance).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 24 2006, 02:59 PM) [snapback]337492[/snapback]</div>

I'd think the Echo 1.5 would be a bolt in, but that scares me way more than adding a turbo... Does the Echo 1.5 have the same trick valve setup to let it hold the vavles open for smooth restarting? Is the Echo 1.5 going to be optimized for the RPMs that the computer will want to run it? It'd be an interesting project, to say the least.

I'd still vote for a turbo, the EFI compensates for the increased air flow, and with "normal operation", you are basically running a stock engine. From what I can remember of the article, they didn't really have to mess with fuel delivery or other issues. The hard part was the plumbing, i.e., manifolds, and moving things around, and finding room under the hood.

 

A turbo with the right engine managment system would be the best comprimise for efficiency and power. Your volumetric efficiency is much higher with a turbo than nearly any other form of power adder and under light throttle you are not increasing fuel needs much so milage stays high until you start boosting, then kiss you milage goodby. Least thats how all my V6 and V8 turbocharged setups have reacted.

I ran my Prius down the 1/4mile 14 times in one day and the battery was VERY low after about the 5th pass. To keep it charged up I would try driving with the brakes pressed or flooring it down the return road for a moment to get some speed then coast as far as I can. After about 10 passes the car kept getting slower and slower. I think we hypothesised that the electronics were heating up and lossing efficiency. I went from a best of 17.6 to 18.4 seconds.

IMO if you were wanting to increase acceleration then take out weight. Find the lightest wheels/tires you can and start stripping the car down. You'll get better acceleration, milage and braking. Ohh, and probably a bunch of road noise and rattles and passangers won't like sitting on milk crates.

 

The CR is already high in these cars. 13:1 or something like that? Compression really dosnt yield much in the way of power per point. Then you get to a point where you will have to increase octane to keep it out of ignition retard or else your power and milage will take a big hit.

The other drawback to doing a turbo or blower would be upgrading the fuel delivery system. if you added enough power you are VERY likely to over tax the stock fuel system. You could easily calculate that though if you know the fuel injector sizing and their pressure raqting then the fuel pressure of the system itself. That would give you the total amount of HP the system is able to support safely without inducing injector lockup or running out of capacity at the pump. :0

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Oct 24 2006, 03:14 PM) [snapback]337505[/snapback]</div>

Your instincts are right, the Echo 1.5 would be a bad, bad idea to bolt in. The Prius 1.5 uses the same block, but from what I recall, it has a lot of lightweight parts, and there are some differences with the valves. The lightweight parts are part of the reason why the RPMs have to be kept low, but they're also the same reason the engine can be spun up from a dead stop sort of quickly.

With a turbo, you've got other issues to worry about. I'm not sure if the cooling system continues to run when the engine shuts down in the Prius, but if it doesn't, you'll end up with a cooked turbo. Even without that, you'll probably want a separate cooling system for the turbo, as the Prius wouldn't know to keep the cooling fan running for a few minutes after you shut the car off on a hot day. Again, cooked turbo. And you'll probably want an intercooler, as turbo's work best with cold air. That's a lot of crap to stuff under the hood.

You may want to consider a supercharger instead (I'm not sure if anyone else has brought this up). A supercharger develops more low end power, which would help to get the Prius off the line a bit quicker. It's probably a bit less involved than a properly done turbo, but I'm not quite as familiar with superchargers as I am with turbos.

 

STS Turbo FTW! hahaha

 

I think most performance can be won in software rather than hardware.
Topspeed probably can't be easily be raised due to the max. rpm of the generator, but I think acceleration can be improved by reprogramming.

 

Just add a booster electric motor and second battery to drive the rear wheels. Should be much easier than changing the engine.

 

Lot's of ideas here.

Pinto: I don't know if the exhaust will give any real HP, but how will we know unless someone tries it!

As far as NO2 and turbo, both can be done safely. Nitrous can be a very inexpensive and efficient way of producing more power. How safe it is all depends on your use. Trying to inject a 150hp shot of NO2 would certainly not be a good thing. However, a smaller 50-75 shot probably would have no damaging effects.

A turbo may be the way to go, as long as the fuel system was able to keep up. Then again, with the PRius engine, gains would not be so huge that it would require a significantly higher amount of fuel. Stock is probaly sufficient.

I do know of the Prius GT. It's not practical though. I drive mine everyday. I don't want to give up the side airbags. Wouldn't mind a roll cage if it weren't so intrusive. And finally, I drive my kids to school in it, so removing the rear seat is a no go. Basically I'm not willing to give up ANY of the creature comforts for performance. I even added about 50 pounds of audio gear to the back. THis is all stuff I want in addition to performance.

Ah, yes, it was Blitz, not HKS. Anyway, it just goes to show that it is possible to add a healthy dose of HP. Add in the nearly 300 lb.ft. of torque fromthe electric and you've got good times for sure. Certainly enough to surprise even a decent sports oriented car off the line...


As for me, I'm not going to do anythng really extreme. I'm going to make mine as fun as possible without modifying the engine or electrical system. I'm getting a Lotus Exige in about a year, year and a half or so, so performance will not be an issue. Still, that doesn't mean I don't want the Prius to be fun!

Until then, if there are any neat parts that would give me more power without really tearing into the engine I'm all for it.

 

Hello Bjorn... Have you driven the Lotus Elise? There seems to be a lot of people selling them off at really attractive prices these days. I guess these people purchased the cars and then found out that they were NOT that great as a daily driver!




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DocVijay @ Oct 25 2006, 10:48 AM) [snapback]337962[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Oct 25 2006, 01:31 PM) [snapback]338070[/snapback]</div>

Yes, and the Exige (the hardtop version) is even more extreme. But people who buy this as a daily driver are very... misinformed.

You do NOT buy this to drive on your daily commute. You can every now and then, but doing it every day would not be fun. It is a relatively easy car to drive, but it is very much not concerned with creature comforts. It rides VERY rough.

But as a weekend car, or one to drive to work occasionally, is unbeatable for fun (or at least unbeatable without spending over $150,000).

I've speced it out at the dealership (haven't put the deposit yet), and included the Touring pack, which includes carpet (!) and leather seats, and adds a miniscule bit of comfort. The seats are still basically a shell with a thin layer of padding only though. Short drives are OK, buit longer ones can be tough.