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Featured Rotary returns

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Mazda Bringing New Rotary Concept to Tokyo | TheDetroitBureau.com

    Earlier this year, several senior Mazda sources revealed that the Wankel will make its return under the hood of the Japanese automaker’s first battery-electric vehicle. If that has you scratching your head, the explanation is simple: the rotary will serve as a range-extender for the EV Mazda is expected to launch sometime in 2019.

    It’s the same approach that BMW is using for a range-extender for its little city car, the i3 REx, albeit with a rotary, rather than conventional piston engine. Once the batteries are drained, the Wankel will fire up to keep the car rolling until the driver can stop for a recharge.

    The range-extender approach is somewhat different from a plug-in hybrid in several ways. First, the vehicle is expected to run solely in electric mode unless and until the batteries are drained. And, even then, the internal combustion engine serves solely as a generator, providing power to drive the vehicle’s electric motor. It never delivers torque directly to the wheels.

    An approach this BMW i3-REx owner can almost agree with having coded my BMW i3-REx to enable 75% SOC operation. What this means is 100%->75% exclusive battery gets me outside of the city. Then on the highway, I can enable the REx and sustain 70 mph. The battery averages the power needed for short term demands and down slopes.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if they can get the range to 100ev and another 200wankle, they might be on to something.
     
  3. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Gretchen Mazda, stop trying to make "fetch" the Wankel happen, it's not going to happen.

    (Mazda is known for showing tons of Wankel concepts that never make it to reality, because even if they can make a Wankel barely meet emissions and efficiency standards, they can apply the same technology to a piston ICE and get even better results.)
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i know, but it's so romantic, and makes great pub. a lot of folks are rooting for them.
     
  5. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    This is why I like Mazda. They don't follow the crowd. They had a turbo 4 family sedan in the 2000's. When everyone started ditching their V6 for turbo, Mazda decided, "nah SkyActiv Atkinson cycle engine is good." And it is. Good fuel economy and good driving dynamics. Unfortunately, the buying public, me included, have not supported Mazda by buying their products. It's a shame.

    My brother had a rotary RX7. It was a blast to drive. It drank almost as much oil as it did gasoline. Got like 13 mpg out of the what 1.0 liter rotary? I don't remember the engine size but it was a hoot to drive. My sister had a Mazda 5 and it too consumed way more fuel than it's 4 cylinder engine should. Hats off to those Wankel dreamers at Mazda!
     
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  6. NeilPeart

    NeilPeart Hybrid & PiP Convert

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    My uncle is a Mazda/Wankel enthusiast and has owned some variety of RX series since the 80s. Yes they burn oil and gas and yes he has experienced engine failure at ~ 100K several times but man are they fun to drive and that engine note is so unique. He is hanging on to his 2012 RX-8 and drives it exclusively on the weekends; he is even trying to import a Spirit-R version from Japan (but they are very rare). I think it's cool to merge a Wankel & battery but we'll see how well that approach works in practice.
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    to veer off course just a bit, mazda needs a bread and butter car, like camry/accord/altima.
     
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  8. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    They do have one in that class, the Mazda6. Nobody buys it because it doesn't have enough sound insulation (for light weight and therefore better handling), and there's no V6 or turbo 4 option. So, everyone wanting a sporty midsize buys the Accord V6, everyone else buys a Camry, Accord 4-cylinder (or V6 if they just want the one with "everything"), Altima, Fusion, Malibu, Sonata, or Optima.

    However, they are selling quite a few CX-5s. And, I think that's where the "bread and butter" midsize sedan buyer is moving - instead of the Camry, the RAV4. Instead of the Accord, the CR-V. Instead of the Altima, the Rogue. Instead of the Fusion, the Escape. Instead of the Malibu, the Equinox. Instead of the Sonata, the Tucson or Santa Fe Sport. Instead of the Optima, the Sorento Sportage, got the wrong one.
     
    #8 bhtooefr, Sep 20, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    could be, i'd have to see the numbers trending.
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    As a range extender, the Wankel might find its niche. The smaller size and lighter weight can allow a larger battery pack. With longer EV range, the lower fuel efficiency and higher emissions have less impact in the car's typical drive cycle.

    Audi was playing around with one in an A1 PHEV. The entire genset sat between the rear wheels.

    Mazda's niche is sportier models to what to large companies offer. Straying from that could hurt them. Not every company out there needs to be big to be a success.
     
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  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    needs and wants are two completely different things. i have no idea what their corporate goal is, but size can be liberating, or stifling.
     
  12. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Actually, that's an excellent point, right there.

    Twice, they tried to go mainstream with the 626/Mazda6, and it bit them hard.

    The 1998-2002 "wide-body" 626 for the US market was a fairly large-scale flop, because they tried to make a Camry. Camry buyers didn't want to buy a Mazda, Mazda buyers didn't want to buy a Mazda Camry clone.

    Similarly, the 2009-2012 US-market Mazda6 was a flop, because Camry buyers still didn't want to buy a Mazda, and it wasn't even a good Camry clone this time around, and Mazda buyers still didn't want to buy it.
     
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  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Funny thing, I came close to getting a Mazda 626 a long time ago.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it wasn't a very good car.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Did you have one?

    The one I looked at had more room than a Camry and ran like scat.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Part of the reason for the success of the SkyActiv suite in technology advancement is because Mazda is small. They didn't have the resources to start their own hybrid program to meet stricter fuel efficiency targets.

    That success helped them in gaining partnerships with Toyota, who has bought more into Mazda recently. As conationals, Mazda is happier with this than they were with Ford. The two compliment each other in terms of strengths, and Mazda is probably what Toyota really wanted in Scion.
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    a fellow employee had one, nothing but problems. finally dumped it in disgust. just one example though.
    my mx5 was built like a brick ship house. 12 years, no problems and no recalls.
     
  18. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    Yeah, I had the 1600LX in '86 and it was a great car. Not exactly zippy acceleration, but cruised very nicely, roomier than I expected and handling was ok if not great!. The 2 liter GLX was better.
     
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  19. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

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    How much longer will it be before Toyota doesn't have partnerships with most of the smaller or poorer-performing Japanese car makers? It seems as though they will soon lack partnerships only with Nissan and Honda

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  20. bestmapman

    bestmapman 04, 07 ,08, 09, 10, 16, 21 Prime

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    WOW this thread brought back memories. My 1973 RX-2. That was a long time ago.
     
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