"Sabotage in Wartime"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 17 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]526967[/snapback]</div>

But in the case of Afghanistan Iraq and Iran ,the goal of the US and Israel is not a peaceful diplomatic resolution.
The goal is not to eliminate WMDs or nuclear facilities.
The only goal is regime change .Which is why diplomacy has no importance for Bush.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 17 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]526967[/snapback]</div>

So you concede that, in this case, diplomacy worked to avoid an armed conflict? As Evan said, there's nothing wrong with having a big stick backing you up.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 17 2007, 01:44 PM) [snapback]526990[/snapback]</div>

If Israel only wanted to eliminate Irans supposed nuclear capability, they would have already bombed.
I surmise Israel wants to involve the US in order to change the regime.Something Israel cant accomplish on its own.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 17 2007, 01:44 PM) [snapback]526990[/snapback]</div>

like it did in Iraq?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 17 2007, 02:06 PM) [snapback]527008[/snapback]</div>

Iraq had NO WMD's when we invaded. None. Diplomacy WORKED. Then we elected Bush to office.

Thanks for agreeing with me, though.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 16 2007, 11:01 AM) [snapback]526379[/snapback]</div>

A guy who is unable to understand the win-win victory when two sides diplomatically reach consensus and move forward will never be able to acquiesce that there are only losers when one sides obliterates the other side with atomic bombs, regardless whether the dropper or the droppee declares defeat/victory. The latter is a step backwards for humankind.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 16 2007, 05:01 AM) [snapback]526265[/snapback]</div>

I'm not going to read the entire inane thread to find out if anyone has posted the context and the actual words. If you have I apologize.

In fact, during the July 30 "PostTalk" interview for washingtonpost.com, Washington Post reporter Dan Balz asked Clyburn, "What do Democrats do if General Petraeus comes in in September and says, 'This is working very, very well at this point; we would be foolish to back away from it'?" Clyburn responded: "Well, that would be a real big problem for us, no question about that, simply because of those 47 Blue Dogs. I think there would be enough support in that group to want to stay the course, and if the Republicans were to remain united, as they have been, then it would be a problem for us." Clyburn added: "None of us want to see a bad result in Iraq. If we are going to get in position to yield a good result, I think Democrats want to see that."

 

Dr. B,

Since you are so up in arms about the Congress talking about voting on a bill to call the Ottoman Empire's mass killings of Armenians what it is, genocide; why aren't you talking about the other big topic from this week? After all, if possibly hurting Turkey's feelings is "Sabotage" during our global "war on terror" I would think you would also be condemning President George W. Bush. After all, he not only had a meeting will the Dalai Lama, he was also there for the presentation of our highest civil award to the man. This has royally pissed off China, who views the Dalai Lama as a opposition leader who is trying to win support for the breakup of China.

"China resolutely opposes the U.S. Congress awarding the Dalai its so-called Congressional Gold Medal, and firmly opposes any country or any person using the Dalai issue to interfere in China's internal affairs," Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said at a news conference in Beijing.

Considering that we could use China's support right now in the UN Security Council to put greater sanctions on Iran, it doesn't seem to be a good time to piss off a potential ally. After all, isn't Iran our next front in the "war on terror". Still you have remained silent on the topic. Why? Doesn't one meaningless political statement deserve equal wrath as the other? Surely, political parties have nothing to do with it do they? B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Oct 17 2007, 09:02 PM) [snapback]527168[/snapback]</div>

China is just posturing, they are stealing us blind, they won't do anything to us until they are a position of power.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 18 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]527299[/snapback]</div>

How do you suppose Bush finances his useless war?
He borrows money from the Chinese.Our greatgrandchildren will have to borrow in order to pay the interest on the debt accrued from Bushs war.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mojo @ Oct 18 2007, 11:05 AM) [snapback]527347[/snapback]</div>

The war is the reason we are being fleeced by the Chinese and Japanese? YOu don't really believe that do you? What year did the war begin? 2003

................Japan.......................China
2002.........$69,979..................$103065
2001.........$69,022....................$83096
2000.........$81,555....................$83833
1999.........$73,398.....................$68677
1998.........$64,014.....................$56928 (in millions)

Notice the deficits before the war and before Bush was even in office. I think Bush's second term especially will be looked back as a miserable failure but you can;t blame everything on Bush and his war.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 18 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]527299[/snapback]</div>

Your debating style is a bit strange Malorn. First you claim that China will do nothing until they are in a position of power, then you start another thread that has links to the following:

Japan and China lead flight from the dollar
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor (18/10/2007)

Data from the US Treasury showed outflows of $163bn (£80bn) from all forms of US investments. "These numbers are absolutely stunning," said Marc Ostwald, an economist at Insinger de Beaufort.

Asian investors dumped $52bn worth of US Treasury bonds alone, led by Japan ($23bn), China ($14.2bn) and Taiwan ($5bn). It is the first time since 1998 that foreigners have, on balance, sold Treasuries. …..

The US requires $70bn a month in capital inflows to cover its current account deficit, but the key sources of finance are drying up one by one.

China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard (10/08/2007)

The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.

Two officials at leading Communist Party bodies have given interviews in recent days warning - for the first time - that Beijing may use its $1.33 trillion (£658bn) of foreign reserves as a political weapon to counter pressure from the US Congress……………

It would also cause a spike in US bond yields, hammering the US housing market and perhaps tipping the economy into recession. It is estimated that China holds over $900bn in a mix of US bonds.

Xia Bin, finance chief at the Development Research Centre (which has cabinet rank), kicked off what now appears to be government policy with a comment last week that Beijing's foreign reserves should be used as a "bargaining chip" in talks with the US.

He Fan, an official at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, went even further today, letting it be known that Beijing had the power to set off a dollar collapse if it choose to do so.

"China has accumulated a large sum of US dollars. Such a big sum, of which a considerable portion is in US treasury bonds, contributes a great deal to maintaining the position of the dollar as a reserve currency. Russia, Switzerland, and several other countries have reduced their dollar holdings.

"China is unlikely to follow suit as long as the yuan's exchange rate is stable against the dollar. The Chinese central bank will be forced to sell dollars once the yuan appreciated dramatically, which might lead to a mass depreciation of the dollar," he told China Daily.

The Chinese are not stealing from us. If we happen to enter into business deals and trade negotiations that are more favorable to the Chinese, that is not theft, it is just poor business on our part. However, the Chinese already hold significant power over us. They do have the power to bring down our economy if they choose to. Whether they will do so is yet to be seen but provoking them by giving the Dalai Lama the Congressional Medal is no way to win them over to our side.

Also don't forget that we have already fought two wars with China, though a proxy. The Korean War is still ongoing and we lost the Vietnam War. Even with our technical superiority at this time, it is not wise to provoke a country that outnumbers you by 1 billion people. So far our record is not too good.

BTW, I think that both the Congress’s Armenian Genocide bill and the President meeting with the Dalai Lama were the correct thing to do. However, the Chinese are far more powerful and influential than Turkey and they are key to negotiations with both Iran and North Korea. Dr. B is just blowing smoke like is always does, making something out of nothing. I just find it funny that he is calling the Congress’s actions “Sabotage†while the President’s actions are apparently completely sound judgment and probably part of the master plan for the “War on Terrorâ€.