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Same traction battery for different markets?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by giora, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    There are two (or more) threads in the Gen3 troubleshooting forum where people threw the possibility of different batteries for different markets. Someone suggested different test levels of cells which may lead to different part numbers.
    Now, what about the PIP? same battery for CARB states (10 years warranted) and for other states? Europe (5 years)?

    Here is a top view of the rear portion of mine, it has a label with what I assume is a part number.
    I wonder what you guys have (the cover is easily removable).

    IMG_20131017_141239.jpg


    IMG_20131017_141333.jpg
     
  2. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    I do not have the under battery storage tray like yours.....:(
     
  3. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    It is not under the battery, it is behind it.
     
  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    What you might want to check if your car is CA-certified...I am thinking maybe at this juncture all PiP's are CA-certified, at least in the USA. Most but not all of the USA roll-out states are also CARB states.

    At this point the only Gen3 battery complaint we have one taxi driver in Greece and that may be special case of harsh taxi service. I do not want to ignor the complaint, which may be valid, but we have no idea the root cause at this point.

    In the Gen2 battery survey underway, I do not think we are seeing any evidence of higher failure rates outside of CA...in fact it seems quite a few of the warranty replacements are in CA. Sometimes I think the dealers like to do warranty work so maybe they replace more batts in CA than they really have to.
     
  5. Tracksyde

    Tracksyde Member

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    I dont think that part number works in the US. Best as I can tell, in the US, the part number for a complete pack is G9510-47091. But it's also broken down into the 4 sub-packs:

    Capture.JPG

    The part number for JUST the cover (the shiny metal part that your sticker is stuck to) is G920N-47060 and has a description of "COVER SUB-ASSY, HYBRID BATTERY, UPPER" and it is priced at $625.96

    I tried searching for your part number but nothing came up. And using your VIN doesnt work because its too long compared to a US VIN and it wont accept it.

    This is from Toyota's parts website (Toyota Wholesale Parts and Service) using a 2013 PiP VIN I found from a Toyota of Riverside advertisement.
     
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  6. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Thanks.
    This may indicate mine is different from the battery supplied to the US (CARB states? all states?) I wonder what the difference may be but suspect we will never know.
     
  7. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    wjtracy -
    To put the record straight, I am not complaining in any way, in fact I am very pleased with the car which is beyond my expectations (in EV range, efficiency etc.).
    I just wonder if the batteries for the 10 years warranty markets are different from those for 5 years, I hoped they are the same.
     
  8. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I think we're onto something with this.

    US PIP = 10 year warranty
    EU PIP = 5 year warranty

    UK gen3 Prius hybrid battery warranty (2009-Jun 2010) 60, 000 miles (later increased to 5 years 100,000)
    US gen3 Prius hybrid warranty 2009 is 10 years 100,000 miles or 150,000 in carb.

    Reports of failing battery (however anecdotal) in Europe and none in the US.

    Makes sense. What to do with all those battery cells that are almost good enough, but not quite? Simple, stick them in a battery for a smaller market with a lower warranty. It's happening in some ways already as many of the EU Toyota hybrids are getting li-ion batteries. I wonder how long they'll last?
     
  9. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Grumpy -
    You can look at it in another perspective (and all this is speculation):
    Cells not passing the standard test are rejected, cells that pass are 'good enough' (not almost).
    Cells that are passing a more rigorous test are going to '10 years warranty'.
    After all, there are differences between the US and EU PIP performance, max. EV speed as an example.
     
  10. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I fear you're right.
     
  11. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    If there isn't any level 1 charging going on because 200+ volt mains and level 2 are the standard, maybe the internals are different to reflect this? Consistent faster level 2 charging results in shorter average battery life?
    EU version of the V(an) got Li's instead of Ni's and 3rd row seats.
     
  12. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    This definitely doesn't confirm anything we have suspected for some time with Grumpy and Socrates (I AM SURPRISED HE ISN'T HERE YET TO YELL AT EVERYONE :rolleyes: ) but it is a good step in the direction to find out.

    It does start to make more sense. Grumpy, you had your inverter fail right? Do you know what P/N it was or what it was replaced with? I would guess it would be on the invoice or something so you don't have to dig around the engine bay looking for a sticker.
     
  13. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    220v 13 & 16 amp is classed as slow and being phased out. Dedicated 220v 32amp is becoming the norm, though fast(er) chargers are appearing in many places. In that I mean dual Chademo and 70 amp AC chargers.

    Fast charging isn't showing a problem to the batteries, even DC fast charging in the Leaf. Saying that, we don't have the super high temperatures found in Arizona.
     
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  14. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    No I don't though it was sent to Toyota HQ - apparently. The new one looks different and more solid, though that means nothing lol.
     
  15. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Fast charging will always be detrimental to battery health until they can make it more efficient. Basically they just shove electrons in one end and hope they stick somewhere. A good research team at MIT showed a way to "channel" the incoming electrons to where they need to go increasing efficiencies and decreasing charge time.

    Right now even if you charge in freezing temperatures, the internal cells will heat up more with a higher current input. And heat kills. Now, the maths have to be done on the difference in prolonged exposure to lower temperatures from lower level charging versus shorter exposures to higher temperatures with faster high current charging.

    Going on gut from the semiconductor business, longer charges at lower temperatures is better than shorter charges at higher temperatures if the internal temperatures are more than 10C warmer at faster charge or the gain in charging time is less than 50%. Reason being for every unit of time spent at temperature T+10 versus T (in Celsius) the adjusted life usage runs at twice the rate. So if you charge at 40C for 1 hour and make that your normal, then you took 1 hour off the life of your pack. If you now charge at 50C for an hour, it is like charging for 2 hours at 40C.
     
  16. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    With the PIP we are not speaking of fast charging, it is either slow or slower.
    I don"t think 9.5A/230V has more detrimental effect than 13A/120V.
     
  17. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    OK giora...I know you were not complaining:) I did not intend to suggest that.

    PS- I would like to see everyone in USA get the same warranty. It's a disincentive to not get the same warranty as the next guy, and I feel makes hybrids look less good financially in non-CARB states. As far as EU vs. USA, I have no idea what is going on there. What I like to do though is compare against FORD warranties for USA hybrids....they are pretty much the same as Toyota here. I would not hessitate to write a letter to Toyota asking if there are parts differerences, and why? Could have to do with electric service differences etc.
     
  18. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    PEVE provides plugin battery cells to both Toyota (PiP) and Ford (Energi). I would think PiP would get the best cells since Toyota partly own PEVE.
     
  19. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    The 20 characters long string on the sticker of my battery is not the VIN.
    My VIN is per below.
    Can you please try and look for it for details in the site as I cannot (maybe you have to register?)
    Thanks.

    VIN.jpg
     
  20. Astolat

    Astolat Member

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    Don't know about the rest of the EU, but the UK warranty for the traction battery is 8 yrs/100k miles.