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SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Although I have respect for Chinese skills, this is unlikely to be what I’d expect to find in Wuhan (so?):
    1. Our anti-Wuhan advocates - might as well be surrender monkeys as they claim a loss to an unskilled lab.
    2. Complete surrender - to the USA CDC and FDA for imaginary claims by liars.
    Regardless of which hypothesis holds most water, the anti-vaxx and anti-mask liars remain noisy but useless content posters.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I have no access to definitive evidence concerning Wuhan and GoF. But I have every reason to suppose they are on short tethers now.
    Assertions that COVID could only have arisen 'that way' will resonate with some but not others. I have little interest in characterizing those groups.
     
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  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Didn't the U.S. have some institutional oversight, or at least cooperation along with shared emerging disease surveillance, at the lab in question and very many others around the world, until about 3 years ago?
     
  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Yes

    https://p2.predict.global/

    Is one such, there may be more, and I don't know how they are all doing currently. Without regard to COVID, these are very important efforts.

    With regard to COVID, if they are now doing poorly, it is because of the desire for the comfort of ignorance. Which, God willing, will be a temporary state of affairs.
     
  5. privilege

    privilege Active Member

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    lol. if only the trans gender studies had the respect they so obviously deserve, racism would go away.

    lmao
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Too bad they didn't also compare the response of the J&J vaccine.
     
  7. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Based on her history, I won't get worried yet. She was previously blaming glyphosate (Roundup) for causing Covid-19.
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    For a research or review paper, there was very little, maybe no, discussion of how likely the negative observations were, or by how much they differed from the normal.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Mourning the unvaccinated dead.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    #5511 hill, Jan 25, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    If I am infected with something, but are asymptomatic, how would I even know I am infected? Why would I care about being infected if I don't know?

    It could troubling for public health. If I was also infectious, but I may not be. Not hacking up my lungs does mean I am spreading less germs into the immediate environment.

    We do know in the case of COVID that being vaccinated does protect against infection, and reduces the severity of the disease if one does get infected. If the vaccine results in more asymptomatic and infectious people to potentially cross paths with. Isn't that another reason to get the vaccine for yourself?
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i saw 3 deaths from the vaccine in the link, did i miss something?
     
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I read the preprint linked in #5506. I did not view the video linked there. There were many terms and concepts unfamiliar to me, so my reading is certainly not definitive. This article mentions adverse events correlated with mRNA vaccination by citing published articles. While I might call those uncommon, it is certainly appropriate to be aware of them.

    It mentions other, more subtle possible side effects of mRNA vaccines by way of analogy to other biomedical research. This is the best I can describe it, because here in particular my lack of biomedical knowledge came to the fore. All those remain as possibilities that might be detected in future.

    It proposes that the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) should be expanded in scope and depth, here, particularly with reference to mRNA vaccines. It is very difficult to disagree with this suggestion, but the ways and means to accomplish that task are not considered.

    It does not examine demonstrated benefits of mRNA vaccination. I do not claim that it should, but any balanced assessment of mRNA vaccination certainly would.

    I presume that authors seek to publish this in some journal after peer review. As the article sites at least 5 other unpublished studies, I am not sure how that process would proceed. In my (very different field) as a peer reviewer for journal, I would request such citations (and ideas based on them) to be as few as possible. Possibly none, but that would be a decision for journal editor. The reason is that the reviewer is further tasked with reviewing the other, not-yet-peer reviewed materials, in addition to the article itself. I do not know how biomedical journals handle such matters.

    We were asked specifically in @5506 “what we think of a connection between mRNA inoculations and downregulation of Type I interferon”. My specific response is that it does not appear to be robustly demonstrated here. With caution that the claims are beyond my skills to assess. To put this finding (or suggestion) in context, it would surely be necessary to explore downregulation following other vaccination types, other treatment types including synthetic antibodies, and subsequent to COVID infections themselves.
     
    #5514 tochatihu, Jan 25, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    @Trollbait also responded regarding J&J (not an mRNA vaccine) so we are aligned on that. However that comment might imply that the article presented evidence for a substantial number of instances of interferon downregulation following mRNA vaccination. I don't see that to be the case.
     
  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I followed that up in the later post. I only skimmed it, but every statement of the mRNA vaccine's possible negative gave no context of how meaningful the impact could be without the reader then going to the sited source. It raises the lying by omission flag.
     
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  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Here are some findings helping to identify which patients are mostly likely to develop "long covid". Four items appear to be well associated, though the article also mentions several additional factors with weaker links. Caution though, these findings are still exploratory and need to be verified by considerably more research.

    New research hints at 4 factors that may increase chances of long COVID
     
  18. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    That doesn't at all suggest that "it's not even known if it helps". Even if it doesn't prevent any asymptomatic cases at all, the demonstrated huge reduction in symptomatic cases is a huge help.
     
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  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Nice, lay article about Omicron: Omicron Doesn't Infect the Lungs Very Well, Animal Studies Find - The New York Times

    A spate of new studies on lab animals and human tissues are providing the first indication of why the Omicron variant causes milder disease than previous versions of the coronavirus.

    In studies on mice and hamsters, Omicron produced less damaging infections, often limited largely to the upper airway: the nose, throat and windpipe. The variant did much less harm to the lungs, where previous variants would often cause scarring and serious breathing difficulty.
    . . .
    Experiments on animals can help clear up these ambiguities, because scientists can test Omicron on identical animals living in identical conditions. More than half a dozen experiments made public in recent days all pointed to the same conclusion: Omicron is milder than Delta and other earlier versions of the virus.

    On Wednesday, a large consortium of Japanese and American scientists released a report on hamsters and mice that had been infected with either Omicron or one of several earlier variants. Those infected with Omicron had less lung damage, lost less weight and were less likely to die, the study found.

    Although the animals infected with Omicron on average experienced much milder symptoms, the scientists were particularly struck by the results in Syrian hamsters, a species known to get severely ill with all previous versions of the virus.
    . . .

    By no means is Omicron 'harmless' but rather 'less bad.' The six week lag for death still holds.

    Bob Wilson