SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    One tablespoon of my liposomal C contains more than 3000 mg vitamin C. It has a pleasant citrus taste in a cup of water/tea. You could easily drink it three times a day

    Pixel XL ?
     
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  2. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Pic or more info (y).
     
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  3. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    #983 mjoo, Mar 22, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
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  4. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    I would be careful about using supplemental C at anything over 2000mg per dose. Maybe every 2 hours if you're feeling sick.

    There is an upper limit specific to your current condition. Exceeding it results in first gas, and then diarrhea (easy, not explosive...). Determining your max is by titrating to bowel limit. Basically you just take more and more until you feel it, then back off a bit. Dr. Cathcart used to rate colds by the number of grams per day that eliminated symptoms. Nobody goes to a doctor with a 10 gram cold, but a 50 gram cold gets you thinking about the doctor. A 100 gram cold is time for getting professional medical treatment.

    So spread out the dosage. Time release, or better still, lyposomal encapsuled C.
     
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  5. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    What I've done is spread the doses over the course of the day: so one pill 3 times during waking hours;).

    I'll try the lyposomal capsules as they are now in order and should be here by months end(y).
     
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  6. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    Like in all things supplemental, quality varies and you rarely can check it out. Tom Levy told me "there ain't no liposomes in Joe's capsules". I'll let you identify which Joe, but he's big on sunlight...

    The standard is LivOn Laboratories gel packets, and I like Amadean liquid. I'm suspicious of any capsule based liposomes, but I have no practical way of analyzing them. They're all about a dollar per gram, so measure your wallet. Sourcing any lyposomal C these days is about like scoring some TP.

    The homebrew that mjoo pointed out looks promising. I've tried a simpler homebrew method, and it clearly didn't make lyposomes. It was just like vitamin C in water in terms of effect.

    IV and lyposome based C use sodium ascorbate, not straight ascorbic acid. Oral ascorbic acid works best if your stomach can take it, but many people need something buffered or a mineral ascorbic.

    Interesting case history treating influenza with IVC back in 2003. This Covid-19 situation is just the latest in a long history of vitamin C working, if you're fortunate enough to encounter a doctor who uses it.
    Dental Toxins, Dental Toxicity, Toxicity, Mercury Fillings, Root Canal, Periodontal Disease, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin C, TomLevyMD.com - Welcome
     
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  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Crystal structure of SARS-CoV-2 main protease provides a basis for design of improved α-ketoamide inhibitors | Science

    . . .
    One of the best characterized drug targets among coronaviruses is the main protease (Mpro, also called 3CLpro) (4). Along with the papain-like protease(s), this enzyme is essential for processing the polyproteins that are translated from the viral RNA (5).The Mpro operates at no less than 11 cleavage sites on the large polyprotein 1ab (replicase 1ab, ~790 kDa); the recognition sequence at most sites is Leu-Gln↓(Ser,Ala,Gly) (↓ marks the cleavage site). Inhibiting the activity of this enzyme would block viral replication. Since no human proteases with a similar cleavage specificity are known, inhibitors are unlikely to be toxic.

    Previously, we designed and synthesized peptidomimetic α-ketoamides as broad-spectrum inhibitors of the main proteases of betacoronaviruses and alphacoronaviruses as well as the 3C proteases of enteroviruses (6). The best of these compounds (11r; Fig. 1) showed an EC50 of 400 picomolar against MERS-CoV in Huh7 cells as well as low micromolar EC50 values against SARS-CoV and a whole range of enteroviruses in various cell lines, although the antiviral activity seemed to depend to a great extent on the cell type used in the experiments (6). In order to improve the half-life of the compound in plasma, we modified 11r by hiding the P3 - P2 amide bond within a pyridone ring (Fig. 1, green circles), in the expectation that this might prevent cellular proteases from accessing this bond and cleaving it. Further, to increase the solubility of the compound in plasma and to reduce its binding to plasma proteins, we replaced the hydrophobic cinnamoyl moiety by the somewhat less hydrophobic Boc group (Fig. 1, red circles) to give 13a (see scheme S1 for synthesis).

    [​IMG]

    They go on to report:

    [​IMG]
    Fig. 4 Compound 13b inhibits SARS-CoV-2 replication in human Calu3 lung cells.
    (A) Calu-3 cells were infected with SARS-CoV-2 using an MOI of 0.05 and stimulated with DMSO (black bar) or different amounts (5, 10, 20, or 40 μM) of 13b (blue bars) or 14b (orange bars) and analyzed at 24 hours p.i.. In (A), total RNA was isolated from cell lysates and viral RNA content was analyzed by qPCR. (B) For the estimation of the EC50 value of compound 13b against SARS-CoV-2, a dose-response curve was prepared (GraphPad). (A) represents means ± SD of two biological experiments with two technical replicates each.

    This reads like an insightful study of SARS-CoV-2. My only organic chemistry study was the last semesters of ordinary chemistry but I recognize the utility of knowing what critters are actually made of.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Walking the dog tonight, the nearby basket ball court was fairly busy. There's "probably" not one Covid19 carrier among them, but who knows.

    Using the bank machine a bit over a week back, the only hand sanitizer they had was behind the receptionist's counter, and you had to ask.

    Payment on our transit system is largely with Compass cards: you press it against a reader going through a turnstile.

    Every step of this process, it seems the preventative measures are heeded too late.
     
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  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    In the Seattle area, Metro buses went fare-free starting Saturday so that the drivers don't have to handle cash fares. Fares have long covered only a portion (one-quarter?) of the system's operating budget, so the losses won't sink it during this outbreak, especially with the service reductions starting Monday because of reduced demand.

    Light Rail will also reduce train frequency, but I don't see any indication of fares being dropped there. Most rail riders have pre-paid RFID cards (also usable on the buses), others buy fares from kiosks, no human is collecting cash fares. Though I wouldn't touch the kiosk screens and buttons with bare fingers anymore.
     
    #990 fuzzy1, Mar 23, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  11. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    That's not always true. Liposomal delivery doesn't need to be buffered. I avoid sodium bc it raises my blood pressure.

    The acid gets encapsulated so there's no upset stomach. ascorbic acid is made from glucose and just as safe.

    Pixel XL ?
     
    #991 mjoo, Mar 23, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  12. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    The Amandean Liposomal C in front of me is a blend of Sodium Ascorbate and Ascorbic Acid in Sunflower Lecithin. I've read that Sodium Chloride is the problem with blood pressure and Sodium Ascorbate does not cause the problem. I'll post a reference if I can find it. IV C is Sodium Ascorbate, pH adjusted to normal blood pH. I'll have to check what LivOn Labs does with their product. If straight Ascorbic Acid works with lipsomal delivery, then it should be twice as effective as a free radical scavenger.

    My body can definitely tell the difference between ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate. I don't know that wrapping it in lecithin helps or not. Dr. Cathcart was amazed at all the people who complained about ascorbic acid in the SF area when he returned from a small town in the Sierras where it wasn't a problem. He prescribed one brand of C for all his patients, while the complaints came from a variety of brands. So maybe there's a difference that we don't know about. My guess is that he used Wholesale Nutrition, but that's just a guess.
     
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  13. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    OK I will read this thread over the next few days; I have been away, recovered from an illness, now facing COVID19 head on as an ‘essential’ worker; basically as a medical doctor who works in a country (New Zealand) where we don’t have masks, and someone stole all the hand sanitizer and tissues and toilet rolls from the community health team. I made hand sanitizer using distilled ethanol so the team at least has that. I see mention of vitamin C above - that is good. Also look at Zinc. The British common-cold research unit spent millions ?a billion pounds in the 1960s and came up empty handed, almost. The common cold is a set of viruses, 20% being common cold coronaviruses. And the CCRU found the zinc supplements reduced these severity and duration of the common cold. So, check if you might be zinc-deficient (in New Zealand the soil, and thus the plants, and the livestock, and therefore the humans have zinc deficient).

    Sending best wishes to everyone on Priuschat and beyond. Keep safe; this virus may be worse than we think. Hopefully I am wrong. Keep well everyone!
     
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  14. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    It's not just about saving lives, even those that "survive" may have serious illness that demands hospitalisation and that costs and demands hospital beds with everything that comes with it (medical staff). Fatality rate may be low at 2-3%, but hospitalisation is at very high 20-30% rate.

    CDC has a nice data on hospitalisation, ICU and deaths:
    [​IMG]
    Source: Young adults can face severe cases of COVID-19, too | Science News
    Severe Outcomes Among Patients with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) — United States, February 12–March 16, 2020 | MMWR

    The other thing to point out when estimating deaths is that China didn't let go and let infect everyone, they fought till the end with very extreme measures, what happens when you don't fight this thing like they did will be seen in the coming weeks and months, first in Italy and Spain and then the rest of the world.

    I hope that vaccine and/or effective medicine is discovered very soon.
     
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  15. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Just revisiting this post. I've put the FAH client on one of the computers, obviously very different than the last version I used. But I notice it hasn't picked up any work at all since I started it last night.

    I've read that many people have joined the effort lately, so many that the problem queue runs dry sometimes. I don't know how to determine whether this is an empty queue or something misconfigured.

    Any pointers?
     
  16. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    Before I knew about making lipo C I too had stomach aches taking a couple grams of ascorbic acid straight in water. I had to buffer the acid with some baking soda (converts AA to sodium ascorbate + CO2). I now take all of it in liposomal form with no stomach pain. Also no diarrhea issues taking megadoses due to the long half life. The difference in tolerance is night and day.

    Pixel XL ?
     
    #996 mjoo, Mar 23, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
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  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Nice graph that along with the distribution of ages would help:
    [​IMG]

    It the taper of age brackets 65-74, 75-84, and >85 corresponds with the distribution of ages, we could get a clue if there is any evidence the older population has a lower, equal, or greater probability of any given outcome.

    It would be great if we could combine this data with population ages but that is not trivial. We'd need the three outcomes by age buckets and then the population age buckets. Combined, it would give a clue as to the probability of any one in an age bracket becoming: Hospitalized; ICU, and; Death. For example:
    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3 Column 4 Column 5 Column 6 Column 7
    0 Location Children 0-18 Adults 19-25 Adults 26-34 Adults 35-54 Adults 55-64 65+
    1 United States 24% 9% 12% 26% 13% 16%

    Source: https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-by-age/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

    Well I am home today (and yesterday and tomorrow.) If I get bored, US Census data is easily mined.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #998 bwilson4web, Mar 23, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  19. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Up here the buses are now running free. They want everyone to board by rear door, less contact with the driver. He will open front doors, drop the front and extend ramp, for wheel chairs. Skytrain, Seabus and West Coast Express are still requiring payment.

    TransLink implements free bus transit and rear-door boarding | Urbanized