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Scary Situation Brewing in the Middle East...

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Mystery Squid, Jan 26, 2006.

  1. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    Boy..wouldn't that be a great test to give our politicians before electing them?... that could wipe out whole parties! :lol:
     
  2. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    Anytime impending doom leers over our heads, whether it be war or the end of the world, and it is too traumatic to deal with the reality that there is often little preparation or avoidance.

    In an attempt to deal with life and be able to just function on a daily basis without our stomach turning inside out everyday in fear, as a defense mechanism we shine it on as foo foo.
    We tell ourselves it will never happen and if it does, it will affect someone else, or it will be in a different time.
    This is how children and teenagers deal with the real possibilities of life such as car wrecks, going to jail, getting raped, getting shot, divorce, ran over etc etc... we just have to keep tellling ourselves that we are safe and it only happens to other guy.

    So how do we find a balance? Do we stop every person that enters a hospital or restaurant the frisk them down and do a metal search? or do we let anyone and everyone rub shoulders with our kids in school and make ourselves totally vulnerable?

    Sorry to be an alarmist.... when I was a small child my biggest fear was that Russia would lob nukes over and wipe us off the face of the earth. Now I just have to shug my shoulders and say "Que Sera, Sera, whatever will be will be"...how else can you survive can enjoy life if you can't just live?

    Its tough to handle situations we cannot conquer or fix or are out our reach to understand.

    But in doing that, we can't get so foolish to actually believe nothing will happen!...

    Thats the thinking that will truely destroy us!.... As long as we have our guard up we have the highest chance of remaining safe and survival..... When we think we are safe and nothing will happen thats when sudden destruction comes! As soon as we think its not a priority to stamp out terrorist and put money to defense and intelligence we will taken be the ruthless and destroyed.

    What got us in this mess in the first place was laying down our defenses and going to sleep and playing in the wide green fields of grass as if we live in some type of utopia where there is no danger or enemies.

    We must be sober and be so thankful for the freedom we have and realize it is very costly and can be easily taken away.

    But America is so intoxicated I fear what will sober them up and I also fear it will be too late!..

    We may be like the girl who got drunk at the party and got taken advantage of.
     
  3. maggieddd

    maggieddd Senior Member

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    I don't think anyone in here is oblivious to the danger that the terrorism poses globally and it is not a novelty; it has been around ever since man walked this earth and if we prescribe to the origin of the homo sapiens that's only aprox. 200,000 years. Man has faced catastrophes of great magnitude, massive outbreaks of diseases such as plagues etc., has been conquering, subjugating, enslaving, exploiting and has lived with the balance of fear and normal life all this time. I don't think the recent terrorist activities inflicted on the USA in the scale of history of mankind is something unusual. One thing for sure, when terrorism was full-fledged in the 70s and 80s the US itself was somehow excluded. Now when we are being touched with the gruesome experiences that were inflicted on us, on our soil we tend to be irrational about it, like the end of the world is coming, the true Armageddon. If that would be the case near Armageddon has closely faced Rwanda, Sudan, Somalia, Haiti, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Angola, DRC, Chechnya, Timor and currently Burundi again, and parts of Uganda, Western Sahara, Eritrea, Nepal and many other spots on the planet, where daily life is far from being normal, not to mention Iraq. Near Armageddon are coming and going on different scale in different parts of the world and I don't think anyone will ever be able to predict nuclear assaults nor did the Japanese. The only way to solve the nuclear proliferation is complete disarmament of nuclear weapons. There never will be a possibility of feasibly controlling the spread of this fearsome technology especially as we know that political movements and ideologies are not constant, they do fluctuate. We should be alarmed about the containment as well as proliferation. One might need to worry more about Pakistan's possession of nuclear technology at the moment, as Iran doesn't have it yet. What happens if Musharraf gets assassinated tomorrow and there is a major Coup D’etat, the temporary friendliness of Pakistan toward the West fades away the day after. Even Musharraf himself publicly declared that he was stuck in between two evils meaning the Taliban and the US, and he chose the lesser evil. It’s ironic that it is convenient for us to put a blind eye that we are a lesser evil, while we are pursuing a greater one. When one compares his statement with Iran's nonchalant anti west jingoism one might get to the conclusion that we are dealing with the same problem. And we are so desperately avoiding to touch the real roots of the problem in the Middle East. We are just turning our heads away, blindly thinking that we can bomb those problems away by installing new regimes here and there.
    As far as the curtailment of freedoms goes it is obvious that the apparatus that does the control over the population will be way overburdened with petty insufficient crimes comparing to the serious breaches. What worries me that instead of being focused and targeting and singling out the potential dangers, the whole apparatus will become enormous bureaucratic machinery with thousands of incompetent empowered employees, spying on irrelevant individuals, which will lead to creation of the Stasi like machinery. If the masses decide to choose this route then we should abolish our constitution and declare our state as a form of a dictatorship and even if we accomplish the so-called security when everybody will be spying on everybody can anyone guarantee full-fledged security? I doubt it.
     
  4. Subversive

    Subversive New Member

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    I don't think that is the slightest bit "scary." They got elected because they were less corrupt than their opponents, not because of their terrorist activities, and when you get elected to political office it causes you to make compromises in order to stay in power. Winning the election will cause Hamas to moderate themselves. And that is something that neither Israel nor the PLO were ever successful at getting them to do....

    I guess the positive side of that would be that we would finally be forced to distance ourselves from the Israeli government. But I sure hope it doesn't come to that.

    What I choose to focus on is how unpopular political parties just took power in both Canada and the Palestinian Territories, because people finally got tired of the corruption. That bodes pretty darned well for the United States, in my book. You rarely get more corrupt that the current Republican Party, and you rarely get more unpopular than the Democrats....
     
  5. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    Theres good reason all those countries are troubled and enslaved and persecuted.... because no one is big enough to stop those who want to take advantage of them... its a sad commentary on human nature, but true. It would be the same here if we allowed it.

    When a country doesn't have a system that puts people in power that have morals and principles that value human life, then there is no one to defend them. If the people don't defend themselves no one else will. When you get a bunch of people together with no leader and no fight, then they are prey..... Its human nature to take anything we can get away with without regard for others to cushion our own lives and disrespect and disregard the thiers.

    The leaders of those countrys are either led by Mafia type lords and rulers, or pussy whipped leaders without spine or instinct to defend thier country from what others are trying to steal away. Peace lovers don't fare well when a bully comes to take over.
     
  6. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    Wow....

    Couple of thoughts on this:

    Talk about "arm-chair general"...

    ...and being presumptuous.

    You seem to presume infiltration is always possible in the first place. That's not reality, it's wishful thinking. Just like when everybody screams, "Where's the evidence?!!!!!" Infiltration is not always possible, nor does evidence always exist, what then? Do you think situations as such are in the minority, majority, roughly equal, or simply don't exist? The irony here is you're thinking just like an "arrogant American". Do you really think our enemies are somehow less intelligent than we are, therefore we'll always be able to infiltrate their intelligence networks and ultimately prevent any further possible "maladies" thrust upon us? Or that somehow we'll always be able to find "evidence"? Do you think we're the only ones in the world with cutting edge technology you speak of?

    The sad reality is there ARE situations that require a whole neighborhood being wiped out to get one person who poses a greater threat. Such will be the case until Toyota comes out with the mind reading Prius...

    Oh, as for you using the Mossad as an example, GREAT example indeed. How many terrorist attacks against Israeli citizens do we hear about on a monthly basis? Or should I say, on a weekly basis?
     
  7. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    If you ever wanted to read a good rant with a mild mannered facade where tones of extremism can't help but bleed through, THIS is it.
     
  8. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Oh, you've read that too? Actually my parents introduced me to that book, and its related topics. It also explains the *real* reason why nations and especially individuals are encouraged to get so deeply into debt.

    Tell me this though: after reading that a few times, did you begin to see the utter futility of human endeavor, the complete irrelevance of the many "isms" around the world, and perhaps hope for the Meteorite Of Doom to smack into us?

    Me too. Then I became a misanthrope and stopped caring.
     
  9. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Well, we've tried that, and not only have we missed the intended "target" - if that "target" even existed - but the collateral damage was carried live on CNN.

    Seriously, you're actually advocating the maiming and killing of innocent women and children, from the relative safety and comfort of your recliner?

    <_<

    What the hell, they're only innocent women and children.
     
  10. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    another armchair general...

    jayman, don't be an nice person, no one is advocating that. I don't like it anymore than anyone else. It's simply reality I'm not turning a blind eye to, or pretending there's ALWAYS a better way. Machieavellian decisions are going to be made, nothing is perfect, nor will it ever be.

    you can't tell me for one second, if, let's imagine, you had intelligence that you determined a group of people (or individual/whatever) had the means to obliterate Winnipeg, and the only real solution was some sort of operation that would result in a 90% risk of XX in collateral damage, that you'd hold off and risk it. Get with reality, these grimm decisions have to be made.
     
  11. maggieddd

    maggieddd Senior Member

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    I singled out Mossad as an example simply because it is well regarded as one of the best secret service agencies with exceptional intelligence, or should I have used the name of secretly run security agency of Guinea Bissau, which name escapes me? You seem to have a problem with my example that has no connotation in my mind with anything else other than security service, but somehow you are trying to inject into my "rant" some solid accusation of me being an anti-Israeli or perhaps you already think I am anti-Semite. From now on I will use “X†whenever applicable and necessary to avoid your hotheaded reactionary attacks.

    I would like you to elaborate on my "mild mannered facade" and extremism; perhaps I need a complete enlightment on what constitutes extremism. It's funny that you have never been able to present anything that could be even summed up as pseudo rant other than short simple, very derogatory meaningless statements.
    I don’t think there is a point to even debate anything with you as you clearly don't possess any skills to do so, unless the debate will render only vitriolic name calling.
     
  12. maggieddd

    maggieddd Senior Member

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    On that premise alone, there is nothing else left other than shout "Zeig Hail". So ready your children for absolute obedience and adherence to the words of wisdom that pervades minds of Mystery Squid.
     
  13. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    Oh yeah, the Mossad has been so successful that you're chances of getting blown up on a bus in Israel is what? 30%?

    You know why I don't really put much time into debating with you? First of all, you rarely have any true multi-dimensional concepts to present. Almost everything I've read of yours I've read before and most are highly naive. You hide behind a well written facade indicative of you and your pretentious friends sitting around the latest tea-house in Cambridge enjoying the camaraderie you've found together in what amounts to nothing more than Bush administration-bashing. There's a perfect phrase that epitomizes a lot of your more pseudo-elegant rants: the empty can rattles the most...

    Yes, my responses are short, simple, and effectively to the point. I do not need to hide behind excessive vocabulary, or somehow bolster my position with it.

    So, no, there is no use in debating with you. I suppose this we can agree on. That's why I didn't continue at our last encounter. You're so set in your viewpoints, you're just as bad as the right-wingers you no doubt sit around and chastise for being "closed minded".

    As for the name calling, look in the mirror. I don't believe I've EVER actually resorted to that, whereas you have plenty of times within malorn's various threads, mostly unprovoked.

    ;)
     
  14. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    You really need to grow up and not be soo damn naive.
     
  15. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    Whoa, that was harsh.
     
  16. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    I simply choose to be less verbose... :ph34r:
     
  17. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    Malorn is a good sport.... although he asks for alot of what he gets.. he takes a lickin and keeps on tickin......
     
  18. maggieddd

    maggieddd Senior Member

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    with no substance whatsoever
     
  19. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    OK kids, am I gonna have to give you guys a time out?
     
  20. maggieddd

    maggieddd Senior Member

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    Talk about "trigger-happy general"...