Scary Situation Brewing in the Middle East...

Do you remember the reason the US and Canada et al are in Afghanistan? Do the thousands of americans who lost their life on September 11, not count as much as an afghan children? It is interesting that in the arab world the 'anti-west' images are shown over and over again, but footage of Sept 11 is now deemed too graphic to be shown in the US.

 

Asking whether or not the lives lost on 9/11 are worth the lives of afghan children is trying to assign value to lives... and that is completely wrong in my opinion. ALL life is precious...

And the fact that we were attacked on 9/11 shouldn't be on our minds when we justify collateral damage... that's called vengeance.

It always amazes me how 9/11, instead of becoming a cathartic moment for the American people... has become instead one of pepetual anger and fear. One of emotion, not reason...

If we continue to let our emotional reaction of 9/11 dictate our direction in the world... we lend some credence to the view that we're on some kind of bloody mission of vengeance... and some kind of "crusade" against islam...

 

I think 9/11 served as a 'wake-up' call for the US and the west in general. That attack was for all practical purpose completely and unequivocally unprovoked. I am amazed at how so many people have conveniently forgotten about that day.

The fact is that there are cultures in the world where human life is almost completely disregarded. Up until that point, the US felt largely inulated from those cultures.

Unfortunately I think there will be another terrorist event in the west, which will trigger an even larger mobilization of the west. In a situation where americans are vulnerable in this country, I think the only solution would be all out war against the terrorists or potential and likely terrorists. I know my feelings will offend many on PC, but there is only one thing that the terrorists understand. Teddy Roosevelt said it all: "walk softly and carry a big stick".

 

That quote by Teddy Roosevelt was "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

I will have to disagree with you. To me 9/11 and what we do afterward has to do more than just with "there is evil in the world, lets go bust some heads."

We have been attacking terror's agents headfirst militarily (in the conventional way that our military knows how to do best, which has had questionable effectiveness)... but we aren't dealing with the problem of how terrorism is created with the same vigor... what exactly causes someone to consider dropping whatever his life is to that point and to devote himself to such a cause?

We have been less effective getting to the bottom of that... and there is no military solution to this core issue... leading with our fists won't help. It is not a problem that you can solve with a military invasion.

 

So lets solve the problem. Simply cut oil and NG consumption by about 35% and we dont need to import anything from the middle east. If they want to blow themselves up, let them.

 

How do we get to the root of the causes of this 'fundamentalist islamic crusade'? Whatever the causes, will the situation get better or worse the day the last drop of middle east oil is improted into the US? Some of you will gasp, but I don't really care what the causes are.

Did we have a big debate on December 8, 1941, what the causes were for the Japanese attack on Pearl HArbor and the Phillipines? Did we wonder what the causes were for Hitlers aggressions in Europe? Thank god we didn't have a 24 hour news cycle in 1941, after the first collateral damage footage was shown from Berlin or Tokyo, FDR would have been asked to bring the troops home immediately and stop the war.

 

When it comes down to it, I think it's extremely presumptuous of any of us to say that this is an issue of right and wrong.

A way of looking at it would be Israel is right, we are allies with them, we are right, the Palestinians are terrorists, so they must be wrong.

This is perfectly sufficient if you want diplomacy and peace to fail...

What's at the core of that conflict is a clashing of cultures, of ways of looking at the world... one that is millennia old.

Now in our world, the methods that parties use still means a lot... so those that use horrific tactics are often frowned upon, and to the extremes, they are called terrorists...

but ironically... they have the same "ends justify the means" point of view as we've been talking about.

I do not know... I guess i'm still holding out for some real honest diplomacy, but i haven't seen much of that in a while.

 

Diplomacy with Hamas? you must be kidding. The UN will bring the diplomatic parade into Jerusalem the day after they negotiate an acceptable soulution with the nut in Tehran!

 

You have a very different way of looking at the world than I do, but you make some interesting points.

This is a conflict of ideologies. I don't know how they think 100% either, but when you get down to it, there is a distaste for the west... our economy, our culture... etc etc...

I care about the causes because it's costing lives one way or another...
If we proceed like we are doing now, we will lose more lives in fighting this endless war, and also cost more lives in innocents caught in collateral damage... and this war will not end.
On the other hand, if we pretend like nothing is wrong like pre-9/11, they will attack us again, and more american blood will be spilled.

We must take the third option... we must continue our war to kill or capture terror's agents, but we also must put effort into resolving this ideological conflict... through diplomacy, through other efforts... we must defuse the powder keg in the middle east... this must be a long term effort... but only then will we have long term peace.

 

Yeah... well it's sad. I don't think that diplomacy with Hamas will happen either... oy. this situation sucks.

 

Yeah. It's depressing.

There is no common ground it seem, sometimes.

 

WWII was the last conventional war. The world is not the same, like it or not.

It is not about nation vs. nation anymore... it's about an ideological conflict that can't be stamped out once we utterly demoralize a country and create a new government like we did in Japan and Germany...

Rebuilding Japan and Germany was a cakewalk compared to what we're going through in Iraq. Why were there no stiff resistance from the Japanese when we were an occupying force post-WWII? How about in Germany? The world is a different place, that's why.

9/11 isn't the same as pearl harbor. It wasn't Iraq, or Afghanistan or etc declaring war... it was an entire ideology. This war that we've been fighting... has the potential to last forever unless we find a way to take the argument out of their ideology.

 

How is a compromise found with religious zealots?

 

I think comparisons can be made to World War II. The biggest difference with the war on terror and World War II, is that World War II, was fought with all means necessary to win an unconditional peace. The people of Japan and Germany were utterly and completely defeated for the most part and were hungary for peace, compromise and a new way. In the middle east we are continually trying to find compromise and a new way without first reaching a point of unconditional surrender. I for one think it is impossible.

What would have happened in Germany and Japan without unconditional surrender. My feeling is the situation in each country would have resembled today's Iraq, with factions of the former ruling parties creating mayhem at every turn. Can you imagine putting Hitler on trial with thousands of members of the Nazi party still running around Berlin? I think it would have been decades before there was truly peace in Germany. Without unconditional surrender would there have even been a new government in Japan?