Scary Situation Brewing in the Middle East...

What can I say but that the world is a supremely different place than WWII?

We are not fighting a nation... which seems to be a big difference. What's your solution then? Instead of occupying Iraq, occupying Afghanistan, should we have firebombed them both until they surrendered?

Heck... firebomb them even if they do surrender. Firebomb them until they have nothing left to demoralize them. We dropped 2 atom bombs on Japan. Are you suggesting we do the same to Afghanistan, Iraq, whoever, until Osama Bin Laden surrenders? Do you honestly think that'll work?

The enemy that we face today is very different from the fascists we fought in the middle of the century. Destroying their cities, their homes and their people do not demoralize them... that only forces the insurgents and the terrorists to redouble their effort and to resist us further.

Following the same tactics the Allies used to end WWII would be considered genocide and war crimes nowadays... and would not serve to end this war on terror.

 

What will make al queda and such stop? The US pulling out of the middle east in its entirety? Leaving Israel to wither on the vine? Even those two ideas would only work in the short-term. The zealots want an end to our culture, unless you are willing to give up the freedom to post on PC, read whatever you want, watch whatever you want, believe whatever you want, there will always be an impasse in my opinion. It is a complete divergence on the ideas of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

Yes, but that is no justification for completely abandoning our humanity, our own principles about the rules of war...

Like I said before, there are at least three paths that we can take, but you think there are only two.

You think that we can :
a. continue to kick butt until we kill them all
b. go home, pull out, and be attacked again and again

I agree that b. doesn't work, but a. doesn't work either... because the more aggressive we become, the more we position ourselves that we don't give a crap about Muslims, moderate or extremists... the more they'll hate us.

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. "

We have to choose option c)
c) continue the fight to kill or capture the agents of terror, but also at the same time try to reach out to the muslim world and breed understanding, and also explore diplomacy.

That's the option we've been ignoring. Eliminate the terrorists, but make sure that otherwise moderate Muslims who just want to live their lives don't throw their lives away and join the insurgency and become terrorists. We can't do that if we just want to kick nice person. We need to win over hearts and minds.

 

On one hand, you seem to be describing that the terrorists want to take away our freedoms, our liberties... on the other hand, Bush and the rest of them are trying to convince us to give away our freedoms and liberties in the name of defeating the terrorists...

You see how I feel like we're caught between a rock and a hard place?

Whoever wins, we lose.

 

It is a fine line, between security and infringement of liberties. I guess I go back in time to world War II. There were many infringements on liberties which were restored after the war. I think the real question is what happens to civil liberties during a war which will be semi-permanent or maybe permanent. To most of the United States if they do not watch the evening news it is if the war does not exist. A much different situation that what has existed in the past.

 

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Which is extremely relevant...

As for civil liberties during a permanent war, see "1984."

 

Finally, I get to agree with malorn.

What did "man" first war over on a "semi-organized" (family/clan) basis? Probably food and/or territory.

What other things have wars been engaged in by organized groups, but before the development of the modern nation/state?

Territory; resources (including animals, women and other people) with "value", up to and including "money"; revenge; a sense of "honor"; a sense of superiority of one's "people" and "culture" over another's, coupled with the will to impose it on them; perhaps megalomania.

And since the emergence of nations/"empires"? Any of the previous, plus "national pride" and/or "ethnic superiority", buttressed by "higher" theories involving political systems and/or religious "rightness". Paranoia. Hatred.

Are the causes "getting better", i.e., more justified on the basis of the physical survival of large numbers of individuals? Or "better" owing to becoming more "cerebral", that is, derived from "higher concepts" of justice, or stability, or "civilization"?

Or is it all simply testosterone-driven, the "fatal flaw" of an otherwise promising species?

After hundreds of thousands of years, are the incidences of group conflict and war diminishing and the rationales for them "improved"?

 

What would you expect to be said? "The US sure nailed us on that bombing, no collateral damage and they got all their targets." Have they ever said that? According to these types of sources no terrorists have ever been killed only innocent women and children attending, school, a wedding, or a funeral. The worst part is that garbage is circulated on Al-jazeera over and over again.

 

The reality probably lies somewhere in between... but that still means a lot of dead... innocents and terrorists alike.

The military uses language that tries to soften the whole thing... precision attack... laser guided whatever... but the fact is that you're still raining down man-made death.

 

Unless I somehow missed the end, the US is still in a war on terror. I thought in a war the bad guys were hunted down and killed until there was unconditional surrender. If there are innocents around some of these guys, is that the responsibility of the US?

 

I feel badly for the loss of any human life... be it american soldier, innocent Iraqi, or our enemies.

At some point of wrestling with the issue, I came to the conclusion that a death of any kind in this war isn't caused by man... but by the times... and what wretched times we live.

 

Yes.

Because this is a different kind of war. Or at least it should be.

 

One question. Is there a war on terror?

If yes, than deaths of both the guilty and innocent happen in war.

IF no then every US miltary person should come home.

 

I my be wrong again, but I would take the olive branch offered by mr bin laden as a sign that it is getting pretty "hot in the kitchen".