Scooter pardoned (edit: sentence commuted)

Business as usual in Washington.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jul 2 2007, 10:03 PM) [snapback]471983[/snapback]</div>

There is lots of water left in that well but not one person wants to drink from it - except maybe an intern or two :lol: I think you will also find a cigar or two in there too And I think the Rose Law Firm billing records were pulled from there earlier

I dont think the Clinton pardons including Marc Rich, the FALN gang (didn't he pardon them too - didn't they kill people?) are appropriate discussion topics here. It is true that Clinton pardoned over 400 people while Bush has pardone less than half of that. He could always pull a Clinton and pardon a whole bunch during his last day or two in office - u never know.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mad Hatter @ Jul 2 2007, 07:13 PM) [snapback]471875[/snapback]</div>

The only people with lower ratings are REid, Pelosi, the Democratic Congress, and Olmert.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jul 2 2007, 09:03 PM) [snapback]471983[/snapback]</div>

Clinton's list... It's a long one.

http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jul 2 2007, 07:02 PM) [snapback]471867[/snapback]</div>

I am still completely lost here....

Fitzgerald was empowered to investigate what? Libby was convicted of what? Was Libby involved in any way with the directive of Fitzgeralds investigation?

In my opinion, Bush was correct in not pardoning Libby, and not making him serve jail time.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Kelly @ Jul 2 2007, 09:54 PM) [snapback]471975[/snapback]</div>

Here's a quick quiz for everyone. Without looking it up, tell me what Libby was convicted for. Jack Kelly doesn't know, because he got it wrong. Hint: It was not for outing Plame, since that was Richard Armitage, not Libby, and Armitage wasn't even prosecuted for it.

 

Everyone knows Bush will pardon Libby at the end of his term.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Jul 3 2007, 08:55 AM) [snapback]472221[/snapback]</div>

Convicted of obstruction of justice (ie, lying to investigators) about said case. OK, so he may not be the one who named names, but he covered up for those who did. Same thing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Jul 3 2007, 10:03 AM) [snapback]472225[/snapback]</div>

What did that have to do with the charges of investigation given to Fitzgerld? Do you honestly think the sentence fitted [Libby's] crime?

 

Wire fraud, mail fraud, racketeering, racketeering conspiracy, criminal forfeiture, income tax evasion, and trading with Iran in violation of trade embargo, 18 U.S.C. §§ 1343, 1341, 1962©, 1962(d), 1963, and 2; 26 U.S.C. § 7201, 50 U.S.C. § 1705, and 31 C.F.R. §§ 535.206(a)(4), 535.208 and 535.701

The above is what Marc Rich was convicted of. President Clinton granted him a full pardon. I wonder what he traded with Iran? Income tax evasion! Wire fraud. How many days did Mr. Rich serve? Is he still even considered a fellon? Can he vote in the US? Did he pay any penalties for his crimes?

And people are complaining about a guy who had nothing to do with main charges of this investigation - who gets big time in jail and a huge fine - getting his sentence commuted? Who are you guys kidding?

 

http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/featur...ml?id=110010289
Bush and Libby [WSJ editorial]
The commutation is a profile in non-courage.

This, however, will stand as a dark moment in this Administration's history.
In no small part because of these profiles in non-courage, it was Mr. Libby who found himself caught up in prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's hunt for the Plame leaker, which he and his masters at Justice knew from Day One to be State Department official Richard Armitage.

Mr. Bush's commutation statement yesterday is another profile in non-courage. Mr. Libby deserved better from the President whose policies he tried to defend when others were running for cover. The consequences for the reputation of his Administration will also be long-lasting.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jul 2 2007, 08:48 PM) [snapback]471935[/snapback]</div>

Add Paris Hilton does more time than Sandy Berger and Bill Clinton

 

"When it comes to the law, there should not be two sets of rules — one for President Bush and Vice President Cheney and another for the rest of America. Even Paris Hilton had to go to jail. No one in this administration should be above the law." — Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill.

___

"Accountability has been in short supply in the Bush administration, and this commutation fits that pattern." — Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt.

___

"This is exactly the kind of politics we must change so we can begin restoring the American people's faith in a government that puts the country's progress ahead of the bitter partisanship of recent years." — Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill.

___

"Only a president clinically incapable of understanding that mistakes have consequences could take the action he did today. President Bush has just sent exactly the wrong signal to the country and the world." — former Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C.

___

"The Constitution gives President Bush the power to commute sentences, but history will judge him harshly for using that power to benefit his own vice president's chief of staff who was convicted of such a serious violation of law." — Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.

___

"The president said he would hold accountable anyone involved in the Valerie Plame leak case. By his action today, the president shows his word is not to be believed." — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

___

"It is time for the American people to be heard — I call for all Americans to flood the White House with phone calls tomorrow expressing their outrage over this blatant disregard for the rule of law." — Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del.

___

"By commuting Scooter Libby's sentence, the president continues to abdicate responsibility for the actions of his administration. The only ones paying the price for this administration's actions are the American people." — Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn.

___

"The arrogance of this administration's disdain for the law and its belief it operates with impunity are breathtaking. Will the president also commute the sentences of others who obstructed justice and lied to grand juries, or only those who act to protect President Bush and Vice President Cheney?" — New
Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson.

******************************

And why I will NEVER vote for a Republican and certainly NEVER for Fred Thompson:

"While for a long time I have urged a pardon for Scooter, I respect the president's decision. This will allow a good American, who has done a lot for his country, to resume his life." — Former Sen. Fred Thompson, R-Tenn.

By this standard Randy "Duke" Cunningham should be pardoned as well. Which he probably will at the end of Bush's term.

Fred Thompson should never be allowed in the White House to carry on Bush's "business as usual".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 3 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]472400[/snapback]</div>

As a registered Democrat I feel the same way as to what happened in the Monica Lewinski scandal. I agree, anyone involved, associated with, or defended the blantant sexual harassment of Monica Lewinski should be disqualified from public service.

What happened in the oval office is essentually the definition of sexual harassment. The most powerful person in the country takes advantage of an intern.

Hmmmmmm, which current candidate(s) helped Bill Clinton try to cover-up and lie about the Monica Lewinski scandal?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jul 3 2007, 12:27 PM) [snapback]472347[/snapback]</div>

i absolutely agree with you. marc rich should NOT have been pardoned. i know that there are a lot of folks here that are just plainly anti-bush at all costs. however, i am against the type of favoritism that ANY of these politicians exhibit, republican or democrat. so, to compare past decisions by other presidents is not necessarily a fair argument. (though i understand your frustration with the extreme bush bashing. i'm not even a big fan of bush, but i do my best to step back and be fair.)

did the punishment fit the crime? i'm not sure. i did not hear all of the testimony. i don't know the specifics of the sentencing guidelines. sometimes, prison time is mandatory. but, a federal judge and jury seemed to think the punishment was appropriate. surely, one should be suspicious when it is known and publicly stated by dick cheney himself that he and scooter are PERSONAL FRIENDS. it just raises a red flag. i think even a person without a political bias would see that. and i would say the same for any presidential pardon or commuting, regardless of party.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bestmapman @ Jul 3 2007, 03:06 PM) [snapback]472419[/snapback]</div>

stop pointing out double standards. liberal women always forgive or forget or dont care if a liberal man takes advantage of a young woman, an intern, or whomever - whatever his sins, as long as he is a man with power that is on their side - its ok. it is sort of like liberal women who have never come to the side of women trapped in islam or islamic laws - i wonder why bush has gotten know credit for freeing millions of women from the bonds of slavery in afghanistan and iraq - they are getting an education - they can show some skin - they cant be honor killed - they can even vote -- jeeez - they are almost treated like human beings - remarkable.

but then there is part of me that agrees with bill clinton on this issue - if i were married to hillary, i ask myself, would i be unfaithful [i consider oral sex, sex - and i know what is means] - and the answer is, even after all her plastic surgery - yes, i would do like bill does. so i am torn on this too along with liberal females - just for different reasons.

You should also check out the list of pardons clinton did over his 8 years - truly remarkable.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PriusMatt @ Jul 3 2007, 03:17 PM) [snapback]472425[/snapback]</div>

i like your reasoning. I bring forth the following quote concerning this topic:

"In the Libby case, there are several factors that militated in favor of commuting the sentence (and made out an arguable, though less compelling, case for a pardon). The two most important factors are Libby's public service and the fact that, at the time Libby made the false statements in question, the prosecutor already knew the answer to the question he had come to Washington to investigate. Indeed, it seems likely that but for the high profile and political context of the investigation, the prosecutor would not have asked Libby these questions. In addition, it may also be relevenat that Bill Clinton was never prosecuted for committing perjury with respect to matters where, unlike here, the facts were not yet known."

I agree with this reasoning wholeheartedly.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 3 2007, 01:46 PM) [snapback]472400[/snapback]</div>

Libs seem to be terrified of Fred Thompson. Makes me think theyr'e afraid he can win against anyone the Dems put up.

 

Tee-hee. I love it when Neocons lose a debate, out comes a Bill Clinton mention!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05_SilverPri @ Jul 3 2007, 11:49 AM) [snapback]472448[/snapback]</div>

Good. Then back your mouth with your wallet. The dems could put up Betty Boop and win this next round, and the round after that and so on for a generation. Did you remove your "W" or "BUSH" bumper sticker like all the rest of the republicans around here? I wonder what they're all so ashamed of? Could it be their WHOLE PARTY?????

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Jul 3 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]472455[/snapback]</div>

Here it is from my perspective:

The Dems are in a must win position for '08. The playing field could never be more tilted towards them than it is now. If they lose in '08, and do not gain control of the White House, they might as well pack it up and go home with their tails between their legs.

I also think the Dems are making the same mistake as they made in '04. There candidates are too left and not very strong communicators like bill clinton was. they do not connect with america. their primary process will further bend the party leftwards.

anyhow, that's how i c's it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jul 3 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]472437[/snapback]</div>

You seem to be combining / confusing two very different countries here. Yes, everything you have said is true in Afghanistan. Nothing you have said is true for Iraq.

Pre-war Iraq was a secularist society were woman were encouraged to get an education and work. Showing skin was allowed and western attire the norm. You may be killed for pissing off Saddam or a member of his family but not for showing some skin.

Post-war Iraq is a country divided by civil war and ruled by militias. If the militia you happen to live under institutes Islamic law then its berkas and honor killings.