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Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by qbee42, May 1, 2011.
BBC News - Scots windfarms paid cash to stop producing energy
Anybody doubt the coal plants kept on spewing ?
Sounds like they also have an energy storage problem.
From what I gather, colorado suffers from this too. We have > 800 MW of wind up in the NE part of the state. If the wind picks up and those things are cranking, operators have to spin down other plants, and/or, shut down wind turbines.
Yep. No good generating power if it can't be distributed.
It reveal an upcoming problem with solar and wind. We must develop high capacity energy storage systems. The interesting part is that the storage systems do not have to be located at the plant, although in many case it makes sense to do so. The fuel may be free, but it does not dispatch on the schedule that matches our demand.
Well, energy storage will be necessary for the long term, but more fundamental is having a grid capable of distributing the energy effectively. Effective distribution mean less storage being required due to flattening variations. Some places like Texas have been improving their grids and are quite good at distributing the wind energy. Kansas, on the other hand, dominated by coal, has plenty of potential for wind power but due to a poor infrastructure can't distribute that power.
People with memories may remember part of Obama's campaign was the creation of a "smart grid". The first part is to create a "national grid" rather than the current lose connection of old infrastructure . It's currently stalled by state protectionism and fighting over payment. There's probably other crap like cronyism and lobbying in the mix too.
The second step is to design a giant penny that will fit into those big fuse boxes at substations.
How about a bunch of BEV and PHEV vehicles on the grid ready to charge when power surges off peak. On peak shutting off gas power plants works fine. Research into storing the power in hydrogen and fuel cells on the grid. This also means as we add more wind, we need to remove old coal plants that can not be easily started and stopped. I would say this is a good thing. Kill the grandfathering of these under the clean air act and the problem will take care of itself.
Yes having a modern grid is key, as is the ability to remove old coal.
I"m not sure whether this needs to be "national". One problem is states argue about upgrades and costs. We do need the federal government to tell the bad acting states that coal is not the future and the grid needs to be updated. It will take political will, instead of pandering to coal interests.
I seem to remember a solution for this that I read about a while ago and it was old tech then. Some sort of liquid battery tank storage systems. High energy density perfect for storing charge, and they need to be big, so perfect for big systems.
Or we can go low tech, and just use the excess to pump water upstream over hydro below it.
this is typical. like the Pacific Northwest when we have excess hydro power which is essentially every night, we sell to other areas, but even that is not done efficiently.
so water gets pumped into a holding pond, or held back as much as possible while other areas of the country are starved for the power we cant hold or use.
all i know is the person that invents a cost effective, semi efficient method of large charge storage will rule the world.
Sun Catalytix :: Home
You've got to have enough head for pumped storage to work. It's fine in some areas, not very useful in others (like FL for example).
The simple solution is to convert it into hydrogen.
From what I've read, making hydrogen is problematic because hydrolyzers are expensive and/or inefficient.
On the other hand, high voltage DC power transmission is supposed to be good for long distance power transmission. This can send energy from intermittent renewable sources to where it's needed.
For example, a massive solar farm in Arizona could send power to California (or Texas) with very low loss, supporting the electric grid right when people are running air conditioners.
A big redundant grid really is the best feasible solution. All existing storage methods are either inefficient or very expensive. Pumping is good but there are very few places naturally suited to it, especially any that are close both to sources and consumers, so you need the distribution system anyway.
Make peak power expensive, and consumers will time-shift their use.
I am so sick of every problem being something the 'gubmint' has to fix.
In the US, plug in 15,000,000 EVs into the grid, with the ability to both buy and sell to the grid, evening out peak loads, and presto, you have your battery storage.
We buy ~15 million cars per year on average. If 10 % were EVs, in ten years we would have 15 million.
Design and build a smart grid that uses electricity more efficiently.
How come nobody has built a silo sized capacitor?
Hydro is essentially a "storage"solution. Don't drop it through the dam until needed, pump excess back up. Not 100% efficient, but better than wasting idle spying capacity.