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Scratch one flat-top

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Mar 27, 2020.

  1. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Memos, and 4 page letters are not how these types of communications are done.
    There are regulations (and a manual) for official correspondances.

    All of this dies not matter though.
    One of the things that seperate the USN from the navies of lesser nations is civillian oversight......and press coverage.

    ...even when it's slanted.
    Removing the USS Theodore Roosevelt captain was reckless and foolish (opinion) - CNN

    Of course.....when somebody ELSE removed other leaders is wasn't as 'reckless"..... (McChrystal and Mattis come to mind)

    Ship captains serve at the pleasure of their accountable civilian representatives.
    That's WHY certain posts (flags, secretaries, NCA) are appointed and confirmed.

    Don't like it?
    That's fine.
    Change out the leadership.

    CNN has a right to call BS of the leadership change.
    I have a right to call out CNN for being somewhat myopic in their justifications.
     
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Not having worked in the military, I really don't know how it works internally. But the more I read up on this case, the more it looks like Acting SecNav Modly stepped into an even deeper pile than did the CO he was firing. He fired Crozier for doing what his own office invited Crozier to do:

    "Modly's actions now pose several challenges for the Navy. First, firing Crozier before a completed investigation, while not unprecedented, is problematic. Modly said he lost confidence in Crozier in part because he did not go to his immediate superior in the traditional chain of command to voice his worries.

    But Modly also told reporters that his own chief of staff had spoken to Crozier and encouraged him to contact their office directly if needed. As the civilian head of the Navy, Modly essentially okayed going outside the chain of command, one defense official with direct knowledge of the case told CNN.

    "We are banging our heads against the wall over the chain of command issue and yet you give him a direct line to your office," the defense official said."


    Modly also admits to taking this action to avoid Trump's intervention. Other military didn't expect Modly to survive the day yesterday. He did survive, but only after being forced to apologize for his early morning nasty address over the ship's PA.
     
  3. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    I'm curious what steps the Captain took before releasing the memo. CO to Flag. Co to Fleet commander. Were those done prior I'm sure those will come out if they were.

    Given the current leadership and the response to civilian requests for similar help, things that are watched in realtime today on deployed ships (no brief summaries by teletype), what were the proper channels? Or perhaps what were the effective ones?

    None the less, this is a PR disaster for the Navy. Think of the impact on recruitment. Would you want to enlist given that your CO couldn't protect you and thousands of your shipmates in peacetime. War is different.

    Lcdr USN-R Retired
     
  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    There are times when it's OK to jump the chain of command.
    I've seen three OPREP-3s go out in my navy career which is basically a ship skipper dialing 9-1-1 when there's an incident whose urgency dictates that you pop a flare first....THEN call your boss.
    Like an oxygen generator exploding.....
    or....swapping paint with a merchie....
    What everybody seems to be missing here is that there is a ginormous difference between going above your boss' head, and writing an open letter to CIVPAC.....even unintentionally.

    Also missing here is the fact that Roosevelt's former skipper didn't get fired.
    He was relieved.
    He's still an O6, drawing probably more than $10,000 per month before sea pay, lmissmyfamily pay, and all of the usual allowances for ossifers.
    He's eligible for retirement.....and the minute I heard the name "Crozier" in the news it was DEAD BANG certain that he would never make O-7.
    In fact.....despite what used to be a pretty good career judging by his bio, he probably wasn't going to screen for flag statistically ANYWAY.
    Ship skippers get fired when bad stuff happens....even when it's not the skipper's fault---because like POTUS......it's ALWAYS the skipper's fault when bad stuff happens.
    Modly?
    He's Trump's lackey.
    He's a ring-knocker (Graduated from Canoe-U) and a former helo-pilot turned Lawyer.
    This informs me that he's better inside buildings, inside the beltway than he is out on the muscle end of the Navy but at least he learned enough in Annapolis to know at least a little bit about the wash khaki end of the biz.
    SECNAV reports to SECDEF, and this constitutes the military's "adult supervision."

    I'm a little curious about Crozier's boss.....and what he or she is up to.
    Remember.....carriers almost never go anywhere alone, and the ship's skipper is almost never the senior officer aboard the carrier.... ;)

    Either way...Modly might be done....Crozier IS done.
    He will probably be decided to retire and head up some beltway bandit's rain-maker department or write the next "Orange Man Bad" book, depending on how things turn out for Roosevelt's crew and the citizens of Guam.

    Economic down-turns are usually great for enlistments, and the last time I looked, The USN was turning folks away.
    A distant family member just went out to one of Stick's sister ships.
    He was an A-B student who was probably good for some scholarship money and an ROTC gig, but against all contrary advice he wanted to go sniff some salt air as an enlistee because he was tired of school.
    He had a surprisingly hard time getting in considering his grades and flawless background - because all of the technical rates require good grades, a flawless background, great ASVAB score and THEN they want to see some college courses.

    I'm betting that the military does OK for recruitment for a while.
    It's hard to get schools to pay you while you learn to swing wrenches, turn blinking red lights into solid green ones, or fly high performance jets.
     
    #24 ETC(SS), Apr 7, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    In the Marines, we called it "requesting Mast." I did it; got orders to Okinawa, and; burned out my lifer tendencies. When I arrived at my Okinawa duty station to checkin:

    "Why are you here?" - the NCO asked.
    "I got these orders to report." - PFC Wilson.
    "We didn't need any more people." - the NCO replied.

    I started taking college courses after hours: Japanese I (B) and Japanese II (C). I decided I could still do college level work and the rest of my enlistment, I took evening courses. My life after that was always better.

    I learned many valuable lessons in the Marines with the most important, "DON'T DO THAT AGAIN!"

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    ... scratch one Acting SecNav now too.

    Here yesterday, gone today.
     
    #26 fuzzy1, Apr 7, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  7. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I guess now, somebody's "Acting for the Acting....."

    Anybody wanna be SECNAV for 9 months?
     
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Three other aircraft carriers now dealing this disease: USS Ronald Reagan undergoing maintenance in Japan, USS Carl Vinson undergoing maintenance here in the Puget Sound, and the USS Nimitz, getting ready to deploy from here in Bremerton.

    So far, these later ships seem to have just a few positive cases, not shipwide outbreaks like the TR. It is too early to know of adequate control will be achieved.
     
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Navy recommends reinstating fired captain who sounded alarm on coronavirus outbreak

    This is not a done deal. Apparently Navy leaders verbally briefed Defense Secretary Esper yesterday, who will make his choice after reading the written report, not yet delivered to him.

    It sounds like now-ex-SecNav Modly, besides not waiting for the official inquiry, seriously exaggerated the number of people cc'd on Crozier's email.