Screw in the tire

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Gokhan, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Plug repair is a much simpler reaction than full replacement. And of course, verboten. :rolleyes:

    Just my hunch, but I do think significantly higher tire pressures are tougher on wheel bearings, suspension components. I'm not out to convince anyone, just keep my pressures close to recommended, a pound or two over at most.
     
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  2. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    Toyo has a good technical bulletin on the tire inflation pressure vs. load capacity for ISO-metric, P-metric, LT-metric, and flotation types, explaining how to change the pressure when you change the tire type and size. See the PDF document.

    https://www.toyotires.com/tires-101/tire-load-and-inflation-tables

    Replacing all four ISO-metric tires (no P in the label) with four P-metric tires is usually not allowed. Why? Looking at the tables and charts, P-metric tires saturate their load capacity at 35 psi and the nonreinforced ISO-metric tires (maximum pressure 44 psi) saturate at 36 psi. Since ISO-metric tires have a greater load capacity, you will have reduced the load capacity of the car, as the recommended pressure is 36 psi, where the load capacity is already at maximum; therefore, you can't make up by increasing the pressure.

    This also shows that increasing the pressure beyond 36 psi in a nonreinforced tire has no safety benefit even if you're loaded with passengers and cargo.

    I'll probably adjust the pressures to 36 + 2 / 35 + 2 psi, the extra 2 psi to compensate for normal pressure loss over time. Since they lose about 1 psi in a month, after four months, it would be 36 - 2 / 35 - 2 psi, when I can add air again.
     
  3. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I'm getting old. Everything reminds me of a story.

    Many years ago, as a mechanic in a beverage can factory, I went to the store room to get a new punch for one of my presses. The clerk gave me the wrong piece, but it was almost the same as what I wanted. I didn't check it and it just happened that that particular wrong piece fit perfectly into the wrong place. I started up the press and the shattered carbide wiped out about $40,000 worth of tooling and it took me the rest of the day to get it put back together and everything back in spec. Yup, taking a second to verify a part might seem like a waste of time, but in the long run it's worth it.
     
    #43 jerrymildred, Jan 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  4. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    We should meet for lunch someday.
    The stories probably would last until supper time. :ROFLMAO:

    You can't trust anybody anymore.
    I had a tire on my C develop a "balloon" on the sidewall a couple of years back.
    Found a tire store with the right one in stock.
    They replaced it.
    BUT......upon inspection before driving off, the one with the pooch in the sidewall still was on the car.
    :mad:
     
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  5. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    Update:

    I think my Prius Prime handles and rides better with the tire pressures set at the Toyota-recommended values instead of 44/43 psi. I will now keep them at the Toyota-recommended values. 0 - 1 mpg gain out of 60+ mpg in fuel economy is not worth having worse handling and ride and possibly reduced tire life.
     
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  6. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

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    I finally got motivated & fixed my Prius v's Nail in tire problem. I've been a bit lazy on this one because the leak was So Slow, basically it took about ~8 weeks to lose 7 to 10 PSI. It would always give me a TPMS dash warning light at roughly ~30 PSI.

    As the pics show, this tire is new-ish & full of tread. Here's me using a Plug Kit on this tire, 24 hours later it's perfectly sealed.


    Rob43

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  7. benagi

    benagi Active Member

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    Great pictures Rob. I’ve done the exact same thing to our Prius V a year ago and my Prius prime just six months ago. Both tires are still holding air pressure with no problem.
     
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  8. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

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    I do plugs all the time and also have been doing it for "many moons" (love this reference, and a shout out to our native american friends). I do believe it became a law against it because somewhere a lawsuit took place and therefore a law was made. 3 of my cars currently have plugs in them and they have driven over 10,000 miles with no issues.
     
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  9. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    I think you are wrong about there being any "law"......but the type of plug that was shown never was intended to be a permanent repair either. Tread flexing and heating and cooling is too likely to create a leak again later.
     
  10. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

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    Yep, might be wrong about a "law", but not wrong about tire places not wanted to do it.
     
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  11. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    For the reason that I mentioned.

    I recently had a puncture plugged at the WalMart tire store (because it is close and I didn't know how fast it was leaking).

    They use a device that is a combination of a boot and a plug......and they cut off the excess plug sticking out.
    Many tire stores don't want to use that perfectly safe device.......because they want to sell you a new tire.
     
  12. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

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    You don't screw in the tire. You mount it on a wheel and use lug nuts.
     
    #52 ice9, Apr 28, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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  13. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    It's supposed to be both a patch and a plug -- not only a patch or only a plug. Why not spend $20 (minus what you spent for the plug) and have the job done right at a tire shop?

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Righter?

    I'd agree the inside disc style plug is more secure. On the flipside, they can't be used close to tread edge, and that has been my case with both flats I've had with our 2010. Both just got old-school, loop-of-rope-style plug repairs, six~seven years back, and one of them is still in use.

    I'm not against the disc style on principal though. Our daughter had a flat on her Pilot, it wasn't near the edge of tread, she wanted to play it safe, and the nearby tire place she'd got them from did gratis road-hazard repairs. I ran it down there with our car for the full inside/outside repair, and had it back in a couple of hours.
     
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  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    Well, Toyo doesn't agree with you if you want to do it by the book.

    Toyo Tires technical bulletin TSD-12-018: Proper puncture repair guidelines for passenger vehicle and light truck tires (PDF)

    "Never repair a Tire with a puncture or other damage outside the tread area. Do not repair Tires with sidewall or bead area damage. Such Tires cannot be repaired and must be replaced. Do not repair a Tire where the damage extends into the tread shoulder/belt edge area."

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Ever since I got the last flat tire on then still newish Gen3, and decided to buy a full size rim to used the other side of good tire as a full spare, I have not had any flat. That goes with Gen3 and PRIME now. And for PRIME, I did invest on those tire plug repair kit, but so far, never had to use it. Yeah, I feel more confident that I can do it if it happens on my driveway in nice weather, but I don't know how I handle the situation if the flat happens in dark cold winter night road.
     
  17. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    From the Toyo technical bulletin TSD-12-018:

    "An internal plug (stem) and inside patch repair is the only acceptable and proper repair."

    "Toyo Tires recommends Tires to be repaired according to the outlined instructions and steps illustrated in the Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) wall chart, “Puncture-repair procedures for passenger and light-truck tires” (document PRP-PLTT-0811)."

    Here is the PDF link for the RMA wall chart:

    Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) wall chart, “Puncture-repair procedures for passenger and light-truck tires” (document PRP-PLTT-0811)

    This is one of the "NEVER's" in the wall chart:

    "NEVER use only a plug (stem) or never use only a patch to repair a puncture. The injury must be completely filled with a suitable vulcanizing material or rubber stem and a patch must be applied to the inner liner to prevent air loss."
     
    #57 Gokhan, Apr 28, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Tell that to the tire shop I last paid to repair a tire.

    The last leak I plugged went a couple of years before it started leaking and needed to be replugged.

    Yes, a permanent repair should be a plug and patch on the inside of the tire. The plug kits even have the temporary repair fine print, which I'm guessing the pumped in goo does too. But you can't do a permanent repair on the side of the road.
     
  19. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    Yep, many tire shops don't do a proper repair. However, I believe it's been getting better. Pep Boys told me they used the plug and patch.

    You don't want to find yourself in a situation where you only have the plug and one day driving at high speeds, it starts leaking and the tire overheats and catastrophically fails.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Ok, Toyo is one tire manufacturer, and like all of them, and I'd suspect has their lawyers guiding their policy.

    They all used to do "improper" repair. I guess I'm being lackadaisical, but I've had those, and I've done those myself. And used the tires for many more years. Without problems.

    The main issue I have: the "acceptable zone" for the disc style patch is narrow. About an inch in from the edge of tread is "irreparable". Because the patch diameter will have it riding up the curvature on the inside if any closer. And every puncture I seem to get in that unacceptable zone.

    Secondary issue: the outside-only plug repair is much more convenient, suitable for DIY.

    If I'd played by the rules I would have bought two extra tires. Instead I plug repaired them. Both cases about 7~8 years back. One of the repaired tires (an OEM all-season) I finally retired spring before last. The other, a snow tire, I'm still using, will put it on again next fall.

    I hear where you're coming from, appreciate the opinion, but there are two sides to this one.

    (Apologies, this is mostly a rehash from my page one posting. Anyhoo...)
     
    #60 Mendel Leisk, Apr 29, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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