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Sea level rate of change

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Must be the hot air emitted by an Alabama congressman.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Oh Baaaab.

    Baobab.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Mo Brooks' incomplete comments on Antarctic ice | PolitiFact

    Brooks said, "You’re going to have an increase in the amount of ice in Antarctica because of global warming."

    Scientists agree that parts of Antarctica may already be seeing higher levels of frozen precipitation due to global warming. However, focusing on this increase amounts to cherry-picking, because the same higher temperatures also mean faster melting of existing Antarctic ice. On balance, scientists expect the amount of ice lost from added melting to be much higher than the amount of ice added from greater precipitation.

    The statement contains some element of truth but ignores critical facts that would give a different impression, so we rate it Mostly False.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Frankly unsure how best to address future success of our human enterprise, but Mo Brooks ain't it. Paul Erlich neither. IPCC climate/CO2 might not be either, mostly for being too narrow in focus.

    While population continues to increase, success requires more energy, water, food, and wealth growth by trading and innovations. All that to happen during +CO2, +T, +SL along with perhaps +disease and -agricultural nutrient supply. Surely it's a tricky thing.

    But our debates seem poorly focused. Previous-century folks hope (claim, expect) burning more fossil C is the way. New-century folks have brought less energy to the table than is needed. Neither present what I consider a broad-enough view.

    It could be that catastrophe looms, but current rates of +T and +SL do not support it. Quick acceleration in either would interfere, but mechanisms for those are not strongly founded.

    This debate appears to be CO2 poisoned and poorly posed. It may remain so until how to make 9 or 10 billion humans great reframes the debate.
     
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    SLR (by radar) conference underway in Azores. Our chance to look at current research in this field.

    25YPRA

    Or communicate with authors.
     
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Ocean heat content from Argo equipment has lots of data but also areas with poor coverage. Its increase can be found independently from 'exhalation' of CO2 and O2, as gases are less soluble in warmer water. This has been done, and indicates more heating than Argo does:

    Earth's oceans have absorbed 60 percent more heat than previously thought -- ScienceDaily

    Lacks the journal link which is here:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0651-8

    And, being Nature, does not reveal corresponding author's email. Should take you about 5 seconds to get that on your own.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I wish I could be more pissed.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    not pissed here. Instead pleased that a completely independent method gave concordant (well, higher) results. Seems to me that we have very little notion of when or if the zetajuoles will begin to flow other direction.
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Any thoughts about Venice? Just another seasonal storm?

    I was surprised that sea-blocking megaproject there is uncompleted. Mildly amused it is called "Moses".
     
  12. Starship16

    Starship16 Senior Member

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    I'm right near the coast. Guess I'd better get that Ford truck I've been looking at. ;)

    New report estimates all the fish will be gone by 2050? Can't be. But they say all the plastic will overwhelm the ocean. I find that to be much more disturbing than global warming.

    Leave it to mankind to destroy the Earth. (And himself.) Idiots! :mad:
     
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Some marine fish species have been heavily over harvested. Where limits have been emplaced, some recover but others do not.

    Separate but related issues with bycatch and sea-floor trawling.

    Coral reefs are spawning grounds for about 1/4 fish species, and in some places reefs are doing poorly.

    Farming of particular commercial marine fish is an unstoppable force.

    It is certain that by 2050, oceans will still be producing vast amounts of fish protein. Whether it is that which people want to pay lots for, remains to be seem.

    Fresh-water fish are another topic.
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Antarctica mass-loss rate has increased since 1979:

    Antarctica losing six times more ice mass annually now than 40 years ago: Climate change-induced melting will raise global sea levels for decades to come -- ScienceDaily

    Four decades of Antarctic Ice Sheet mass balance from 1979–2017 | PNAS

    362 gigatons (petagrams) of melted grounded ice corresponds to 1 millimeter of global sea-level rise. Antarctica was 40 gigatons per year at start of this study and has increased to 252 per year.

    I don't know (or forgot) whether other SLR sources, Greenland and continental glaciers, are similarly increasing. But combined rate is currently < 4 mm/yr as estimated separately.

    Article is noteworthy as "inaugural" for Rignot, meaning he has joined US National Academy of Sciences. On this occasion, one is expected to prepare such.
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Which reminds me, this 2017 publication got some coverage recently:

    https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/2017GL075609

    Not shown on that page but readily available elsewhere is maximum geothermal heat flux of 150 milliwatts per square meter. If one wanted to melt ice on walkways for example, 10 watts/m^2 would be a typical target. No doubt a small amount could be melted with tenths of watts.

    One place to see the graphic is

    Antarctica melting because of heat deep within the Earth | Daily Mail Online

    Not unusual for such media coverage is to imply up top that geothermal is doing the melting. While later in text, science-dudes are quoted:

    'The ice loss we’ve seen in recent decades is actually the result of changes in air and ocean temperatures."

    So, careful reading will help one keep one's head screwed on straight.

    I'd dare to take it one step further: Air T over Antarctica is probably causing little or no melting. It's very cold down there, and ice is thick. Coastal oceans (wherever they got their new heat) are doing it.
     
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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