Second Place Is First Loser

No drinkin' and hypermilin', now...
.
_H*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 22 2007, 11:53 AM) [snapback]528951[/snapback]</div>

:mellow: How are you doing Natalie? You are a dear e-friend to us all.

Lee

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(oxnardprof @ Oct 25 2007, 03:19 PM) [snapback]530463[/snapback]</div>

Well, there are TV shows that glorify excessive consumption and a gluttonous lifestyle, MTV's "Cribs" for example.

Really, could you think of a worse example than a professional (stick and ball) athlete or a Hip-Hop performer? Yet so many wish to emulate their lifestyle.

 

Yes, it does!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Oct 26 2007, 09:20 AM) [snapback]530683[/snapback]</div>

Good thoughts Tony. I live in an area adjacent to nicer McMansions (New Money), and also a little farther away are the houses of people with Old Money. The New Money houses are showy and visible, but the Old Money houses are usually hidden away in private drives. You could say Old Money people don't need to show off because anybody who counts already knows that they are wealthy, but I'm casual friends with some of them and they really are unassuming people. I don't think they feel a need for others to know their wealth (of course, I also know them mostly thru a volunteer nature group or church, so that is probably a pretty good filter there too, for the others I just see their houses or driveways).

I also have some friends with New Money (but not nearly as wealthy as the Old Money people) who have been outdoing each other with their new houses and are now in houses way too big for them. One family went thru some financial problems, so they dropped their kids health insurance for maybe a year, during which their daughter was diagnosed with asthma. I was just shaking my head - Dude! Sell one of your $10K+ motorcycles!!!! Sell that high-end brand-new Jeep! Don't drop health insurance!

I think American/western pop culture is focused on the New Money people and do everything they can to attract their wallets because that's how they make their money. Other people see this attention given to them and they want to have attention as well, so if they aren't really New Money, they can still look like they are by going in debt (just for awhile, right?).

I fall into this category sometimes as well. I bought a house bigger than needed (altho at 2500 sq. ft. it's apparently about normal for new houses). I bought a new car when I would have been happy with a 5-year old compact. So I fit in more than I want to. I grew up in a poor community, and people are just as happy there, and a lot of them reject the consumption craze. The big problem is having enough money for health care and a comfortable house.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, other than our landscape is a bit more varied than can be summed up in a couple pithy statements. Popular media is focussed on one demographic, so it's easy to think this is all there is, but it's not so. But important policy and environmental action can't take place without some kind of consent from this popular demographic.

(BTW I've ridden in the low-end Range Rovers and was spectacularly unimpressed. You can't fit 5 people in there unless you use the tiny jumpseat in the back with your head against the ceiling, even in the back seat your shoulders are scrunched and your feet can't move, and if you take a corner at more than 10 mph the whole thing leans and you're pushed against the window. One friend tried taking his over a small ditch out of a parking lot, broke something in a door window and it cost several hundred $ to fix it. And it gets about 12 mpg on a good day.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Oct 22 2007, 10:35 PM) [snapback]529147[/snapback]</div>

Which is why I should be able to retire at 50, because I never felt the "need" to show off for others. Guess you can thank my folks for proper upbringing. I know I've stated it to you a few times, and I will repeat for the others in the audience: work hard, save, avoid debt, and anybody can be the "millionaire next door."

I do get a chuckle out of those folks who buy Escalades with the ginormous low profile wheels. They're the first ones to piss and moan about how "tough" life is, can't make ends meet, etc. Well, nobody pointed a firearm at them and forced them to buy the Escalade.

Anybody who seriously worries what other folks may think of them - especially their perceived "wealth" - is a fool. Get real!

But I'm happy to hear that we think alike on this topic

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 22 2007, 11:53 AM) [snapback]528951[/snapback]</div>

Are you just reading that for fun? Or are you planning on buying a winery? Based on numerous threads, I think you'll have a lot of PCers wanting to take long vacations visiting you as soon as your first vintage is ready to drink.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Oct 26 2007, 08:52 AM) [snapback]530715[/snapback]</div>

Ha ha. So many of those people can barely make the lease payments on those cars they can't really afford, and then they have no money left to put gas in them (which might be a good thing actually).

I know people that make about 1/10th what I make who drive cars that cost 2x what mine cost. They will die at their jobs, since they have no retirement funds, and will actually die with negative net worth.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Oct 26 2007, 08:27 AM) [snapback]530707[/snapback]</div>

On another forum I frequent, some member was selling his expensive aftermarket wheels, as his wife was having some medical problems and he needed the money. I didn't say anything, but I mean, Wth are you doing spending money on expensive aftermarket wheels when you don't even have a couple thousand dollars in the bank to pay for some minor medical expenses.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusenvy @ Oct 26 2007, 04:15 PM) [snapback]530876[/snapback]</div>

I remember the first car I bought after getting a real job. I had moved to Texas with an old VW bug, which was great but didn't have A/C and some other modern amenities. One tinny speaker that couldn't be heard over the engine and road noise. So after I saved up some money (at the same time I was paying down my college loans about triple the minimum rate) I bought a 5-year-old economy car in good shape with the money I had saved. I was talking to some friends awhile later and one confided to me that his wife had said that I could have bought something much nicer. Several thoughts went thru my head, first - why should she even care, second - I hadn't even thought of gettin something fancier, and third and what I said, which was that then I would have to go into debt for it. That comment was just a total surprise to me.

I did go into debt on the Prius, in fact I should pay it off in December, about 20 months after buying it. Then I'm done with car payments for awhile, hopefully a good long while.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Oct 26 2007, 10:27 AM) [snapback]530707[/snapback]</div>

I was thinking about this a little as I was biking home. I think there's the following categories of have and have-nots:

Always had it: they make most of the policy decisions and run the corporations, but don't talk about it much
Just got it: they show it off the most, but still their equity is always positive
Want to have it: biggest group, they spend like they do have it, in debt, and marketing/popular media caters to them
Have almost enough:that's me, marketing wants to convert people like me to the above category
Can't have it: perpetually poor or new/uneducated immigrants
Have what little they need:I remember a villager in Bulgaria with a small but interesting house, he explained cheerfully "all you need is a bed to sleep on, a table to eat and drink your rakia (brandy) at, and a smile"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Oct 26 2007, 09:38 PM) [snapback]530985[/snapback]</div>

Was he n@ked?

Well, I guess with enough brandy...you don't care.

 

Natalie, I am sorry to hear that you have been laid off. I don't know which is worse - getting laid off or having to tell 30 people that their jobs no longer exist because the dot-com bubble just burst and the investor's have pulled out. I have been on both sides of that coin before. Hopefully, you are not buying into the title of your thread; that is more in tune with the brainwashing that Accenture, EDS, and the like use on their college recruits. It strikes me as offensive if that head trip is laid on someone who has just lost their means of supporting themselves. This post is my wish that you will land on your feet in a great opportunity real soon.