security -- the CANN bus - what can we do about it?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by Stuart Cracraft, Oct 12, 2014.

  1. Stuart Cracraft

    Stuart Cracraft Junior Member

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    Is Toyota addressing this?

    Don't we need separate buses with heavily encrypted control signals?

    This is a demonstration about why I am concerned.

    http://lnkd.in/bH8v7A7
     
    #1 Stuart Cracraft, Oct 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2014
  2. gliderman

    gliderman Active Member

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    Watch that video again. I have seen it before. What exactly are you afraid of? Some lab geek taking apart your car so he can hijack you?
     
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  3. Phil Wheeler

    Phil Wheeler Junior Member

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    Paranoia Personified :)
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    nothing to see here, move along.
     
  5. kbeck

    kbeck Active Member

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    Speaking as a EE: At present, anything you have in mind is likely paranoia. Of the not-so-good kind.

    Main point: if the Prius had a 2-way wireless data connection to something in the car that was actually connected to the CANN bus, then you'd be right to be worried. There are cars like that but the Prius, as far as I know, isn't one of them.

    The guys who were "hacking" the Prius: They attached hardware to the CANN bus that was connected to their own PCs that were also in the car. Then, while someone was driving the car, they screwed around with the internal messaging and made the car difficult, if not impossible, to drive.

    Now, I suppose that some Evil Three Letter Agency With Murder On Their Mind could break into the car, attach a wireless node to the CANN bus, and then do hit on the person they want to kill. But when the accident investigators arrive, they'll notice the widget, and the jig would be up. So the perps would have to recover the widget. Um. At this point it's getting complicated: Why not just shoot the target and be done with it?

    Now, as a fair warning to auto manufacturers to air-gap the car control systems from, say, the entertainment/navigation console, the hack works. But to us, in this time, and in this place? Not so much. And as a not-too-subtle smear on Priuses (Woot! this fancy car can be haxored! Lutz!), it works, too. They could've done the same thing to a Ford, or any fly-by-wire car, which is most of them.

    KBeck
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    quoting yourself in your own post is a talent i do not possess.
     
  7. Oskar

    Oskar Member

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    I'm more concerned about someone hacking my bank account. I think I would notice if some nerd is sitting in the back of my Prius fiddling with his laptop. ;)
     
  8. Jonny Zero

    Jonny Zero Giggidy

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    Geek with a laptop, thug with a gun, which one will carjack me?
     
  9. Oskar

    Oskar Member

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    You're more likely to get stomped by Bigfoot than either of those scenarios.
     
  10. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I do hope newer versions of automotive data protocols do get some security, in a future of self driving cars, having the cars communicate as they approach each other will be the robot version of turn signals. If we start planning it now, it will be there when we need it.

    In the short run, a far more worrisome trend is in home automation, where, for example, 'you' can adjust the temperature of your refrigerator over the internet. I expect this to be a security nightmare before it gets any better.
     
  11. Epiphany2000

    Epiphany2000 Member

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    Look at the brief history of the OP's posts. I believe they may be a troll.

    Either way, as kbeck pointed out, there is no medium (by default) by which one can remotely connect to a car's CANN bus.

    Please excuse me while I take the necessary steps to encrypt the data on my phone (a much more productive endeavor, IMHO).
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what cann we do about it?
     
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  13. Daddy Dave

    Daddy Dave Member

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    Wear an aluminum foil helmet and you'll be fine.
     
  14. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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  15. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    Please ignore this post.
     
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