Self-Charging in the Prime

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Maine Pilot, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. Maine Pilot

    Maine Pilot Senior Member

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    I'm considering buying a new Prime but need a little help on knowing how the charging system works.

    In my 2011 Prius, the battery self-charges whenever when ever the engine is running, coasting (not using the accelerator pedal), or using the brake. If the charge on the battery is low the engine (ICE) will come on to bring the charge back up.

    In the Prime, after using up your 20+ miles of EV-only travel, does the ICE then keeps running to re-charge the battery? Also, over a period of time is it possible the ICE will completely recharge the battery in a Prime during normal driving, thus eliminating the need to plug it in?
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes and no. when the prime runs out of wall charge, it behaves just like your prius, keeping the hybrid portion of the battery in it's happy place during normal drive. if you have some extended downhill, it will keep charging the battery.

    while there is wall charge available, it will keep charging like your car, until the battery is 'full'.

    there are several modes on the prime that you don't have: hv is similar, ev is available as long as you have wall charge, and ev auto decides for you when to ev and when to hv.

    a fourth mode, charge mode, will allow you to recharge the battery with the engine while driving, up to '80%'.

    all this is discussed in detail in the many prime threads. someone else in maine just got $4,000. off, it might be the best deal in the country. all the best with your decision!(y)
     
    #2 bisco, Mar 26, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  3. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    In Hv mode, it acts like a regular Prius. If you want it to charge the battery, you have to put it in Charge Mode where it will keep the engine running even in Park and will charge the battery up to about 80% of the level you'd get from a full charge from a wall outlet, obviously consuming gasoline to do so.
     
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  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Here's some State-Of-Charge specifics for Prius PHV... the ranges for Prius Prime will likely be similar:

    0 - 16 % = never used, avoided to promote battery longevity

    17 - 23 % = HV operation (just like the regular Prius)

    24 - 85 % = EV & EV-BOOST (pure electric & blended)

    86 - 100 % = never used, avoided to promote battery longevity
     
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    There are two parts to the battery SOC (but it is one battery. It's just partitioned). The green part is the EV portion and the blue part is the HV portion. Once you're in the HV portion, just think of it has being at 8 bars. You'll settle down to about 6 bars and the car will try to maintain that just like it would in a regular Prius. The Prime doesn't have segmented battery bars AFAIK so it'll just be a solid colour.

    You can regen and charge the battery. The bonus of having a larger battery is that if you go down a steep hill or if your area is hilly, you have more capacity to hold charge and therefore may actually be able to charge enough to go back into EV mode.


    In addition, there is a force charge mode called CHG. You press and hold the "HV/EV" button. This will tell the engine to force charge the battery. It'll top up to 80% in approximately 30 mins. Of course this means you'll have a bit less power from the engine if you require stronger acceleration.

    Edit: The last line is incorrect. The engine will stop force charge and provide power if higher levels of power is needed. Thanks SAMPROCAT and giora for the correction.
     
    #5 Tideland Prius, Mar 26, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
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  6. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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    I will disagreeWhen power demand is sensed it will switch to wheels with hybrid battery assist

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
    Power sense is seen in this scenarioEngine act as generator with battery assistOr full power to wheels with battery assist
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    let me reiterate.
     
  8. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    One correction, ~23% is 6 bars on the PiP HV battery icon, HV operation is up to 8 bars or ~27%.











    Merged. Use multi quote.















    I think the manual says that in case of high demand from the ICE, charging rate will be reduced and even temporarily cancelled.
     
    #8 giora, Mar 27, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2017
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  9. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    27% isn't the cutover. My OBD-II readers show 23%. More would be regen used for electric-only in HV later. Here's video from a recent capture showing that, for those wanting detail:

     
    #9 john1701a, Mar 27, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  10. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Your video just confirms what I said!
    At ~3:00 min - a changeover from EV mode to HV mod at 23% and 6 bars on the icon.
    Prior to that, at ~2:50 min while still in EV, battery icon changes to HV icon at 27% and 8 bars.
    at ~4:17 min, road and driving conditions charged to 25% and 7 bars while in HV mode.

    Once in HV mode, battery can go from 2 bars (about 17%) to 8 bars (about 27%) with 6 bars (23%) as the target to be in the long run. If charging opportunity is larger, then battery icon switches to EV icon and estimated miles appear then (and not before that) you can choose EV mode if desired.
     
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  11. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    It doesn't really matter, since HV can push well into EV anyway. Watch what happens when going down a mountain.
     
  12. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Yes, but only a little bit. at about 28-29% SOC the car switches automatically to EV mode.
    Your stages above are correct for depleting the battery (although you have started at 0% and up instead of 100% and down).
    The thread is about self-charging, and in this situation HV mode is up to 27% SOC.
     
  13. PT Guy

    PT Guy Active Member

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    Pilot, in summary, after the battery is discharged, the Prime will be like an ordinary Prius, except better due to the larger battery that'll take more charge on a long downhill and return more EV operation on a long uphill. I've found no practical use for the Charge Mode running the engine to recharge the propulsion battery. Just drive. Plug in when you get the opportunity.
     
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  14. Maine Pilot

    Maine Pilot Senior Member

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    Thanks PT. You simplified things.

    I did look up past postings in the Prius Prime section, but didn't see the my questions addressed in the those previous threads that some have mentioned here.

    It sounds like most people just leave it in the "HV" mode and operate it like a regular Prius, though I'm not sure if you have to put it into one of the other modes to get the 20+ miles of EV travel, then switch over to HV or does that happen automatically?
     
  15. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    It defaults to Ev mode, until the Ev mode range is depleted. Then it switches to Hv.
     
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  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Long trips with no opportunity to plug in would be the exception, which is out of ordinary driving needed... like when you are on vacation traveling highways for many hours.
     
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  17. breakfast

    breakfast Active Member

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    But even on long trips with no opportunity to plug in, wouldn't it be more fuel efficient to avoid Charge Mode, and just run in HV mode with the battery partially charged?
     
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  18. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Probably, but only assuming you can sustain that little bit of pre-charged Ev for the whole trip.

    I just last year went on a 3,000 mile trip where we stopped in eight cities. Many of those stops included several very short trips (under five miles each, round trip). However, all together they added up to a lot more than 25 miles. So preserving Ev mode range until I needed it (for the short trips) would have only taken me about 1/4 of the way through the whole trip. But those long stretches between cities would have been the perfect time to use charge mode because the engine was warm anyway. That would have provided me Ev range to avoid around 10 engine warm up cycles every time I charged up (average in-city short trips were around 2 miles).

    I don't think I had any opportunities to charge from the grid on that trip. Possibly one, but that wouldn't have changed the above discussion.
     
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  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if you only use hv mode, it retains most of the wall charge. you have to use ev or ev auto if you want to use the wall charge.
    when the wall charge is depleted, it switches to hv mode.
    but it defaults to ev mode when started, so you have to change modes manually if you want something else.
     
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  20. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

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    I've wondered about this. Would it really make sense to keep all the percentages the same, even though the traction battery is twice the size ?
     
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