Service Bulletins - we have to pay for known issues?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Kent Atlanta, Jun 9, 2015.

  1. Kent Atlanta

    Kent Atlanta New Member

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    I recently had two issues fixed at the dealer - faulty EGR valve and headlight wiring harness. Both were known issues and had service bulletins issued (0075-13 for EGR) (0204-12 for headlights). Total cost $1,118.65 (AFTER a 15% good customer discount)!!!

    It seems unfair to have to pay for things that Toyota knew they got wrong. Are there any state or federal rules that apply in terms of the manufacturer having to pay to fix these things? I'm at 95,000 miles so I understand I've probably gone past any mileage thresholds, but if I'd known these would be problems I would have asked to have them fixed long ago.
     
  2. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    Recalls are paid by the manufacturer to the dealer. Notices are mailed to the owner of record.

    Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) are issued to the DEALER once the manufacturer is aware of an issue, and each TSB may have specific time and/or mileage limits. It behooves the owner to keep themselves aware of any TSBs in order to get them repaired, no charge, within those limits.

    Most dealers are NOT going to go out of their way to inform you of TSBs.

    Be an educated consumer.
     
  3. qdllc

    qdllc Senior Member

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  4. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

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    I agree. I had to pay $800 to have fender clips replaced because I wasn't lucky enough to have the problem (an annoying rattle) develop earlier. Even being aware of TSBs may not help because the dealer doesn't have to do anything if the problem hasn't developed yet.
     
  5. New River Mike

    New River Mike New Member

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    Newbie here with a general to specific question. We've just purchased a 2010 Prius and now that I'm signed in have begun to look around a bit more. We've already experienced the engine knock at start-up once and now I've seen that a TSB T-SB-0010-12 was issued around this problem, but if I read it right, it only went out 60K unless it's a California vehicle. Our newly-acquired Prius is well beyond the 60K limit. Do I have any further recourse or am I going to have to liver with with or pony up on my own to have the manifold replaced? BTW our VIN seems to fall in the category of affected vehicles. Thanks.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Does manifold replacement actually do anything? I mean, anything more than just cleaning the existing manifold?

    It's likely related to EGR system, which seems to be clogging with dismal regularity, somewhere between 100K and 200K miles.
     
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  7. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    TSBs are different than recalls. Recalls are free for the affected VINs, although there may be time/mileage limits, though not usually. TSBs are designed to inform the dealer of possible issues that may need to be looked at and/or corrected. The dealer will probably charge for them but, again, not always. Dealers like to keep TSBs their little secret, they typically don't like when we know about them - BUT WE HAVE THE INTERNET AND PRIUSCHAT...Bwaa Ha Ha... :LOL:
     
  8. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    Just ignore it. The engine knocks at startup sometimes... doesn't seem worth spending money on

    I had a 2010 Prius and it would knock at startup every time if: I started it, then switched it off before the engine fully warmed up. On the next startup, even if it was a day later, it would knock.
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Same here, well once. I've been careful to avoid that scenario, since. Kind of a precocious car though. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    The problem is when you buy first year of production (also known as beta testing), it will take a while for toyota to find flaws and to formulate official TSBs. by that time, warranty is usually out. I was burned more than once. if one waits 1-2 years, those TSBs are taken care by the factory.
     
  11. New River Mike

    New River Mike New Member

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    I thought I would update you folks. Someone moved my post elsewhere, where I saw it and followed up on a link to Toyota Owners. Sure enough there was a record in 2/2017 that the former and original owner took it in complaining about this same thing. The dealership did a warranty repair (replaced the EGR and Tube Gasket as per TSB-0027-16).
    Minimally, I'm going to the dealership with the record and advising that the problem has returned. Meanwhile I'm assuming from prior responses that there is no risk in ignoring this when it happens? This morning it "rattled" for about two seconds at best.
    BTW repair was about 7K miles ago and overall mileage is well beyond the original 3yrs/36K of the new car warranty.
     
  12. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    How many miles on your new to you Prius?
     
  13. New River Mike

    New River Mike New Member

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    139K all by the original owner. Service history from Day 1 at the selling dealer, from where I purchased it.
     
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  14. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    How many miles have you put in it? Any detectable oil consumption? Has it thrown any dash lights?

    Are you the DIY type?
     
  15. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Easy fix. Never shut off the car before the engine shuts down into EV. You should never have the issue again at start up.
     
  16. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    Generally, a TSB or Technical Service Bulletin, just says "watch out for this condition". Not "we will pay for repair of this condition".

    The "we will pay (Toyota)" is a "warranty recall" or "government required recall". Now sometimes the TSB will be elevated to the latter type. But that seems to be rare.
     
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  17. New River Mike

    New River Mike New Member

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    Update and answers to above...

    Started with my salesman today, who quickly referred me to the Toyota Service Manager, who listened carefully to my concerns and description of what we experienced. So far everyone seems receptive to my concern. Of course they would like to replicate the knocking and since we have a couple of chilly mornings upcoming I agreed to leave it there so they can start it up early tomorrow and even Saturday if necessary. However, the TSM did not say that I would be SOL if they could NOT replicate it and basically promised that they would get it right and involve Toyota if necessary to participate in the cost. The TSM also flagged down an experienced tech who listened to my description and agreed that in fact it sounded very much like the knocking that they have seen. It was REALLY helpful to have documentation of the warranty action 7K and about three months ago. Stay tuned.

    I've only put a couple of hundred miles on the vehicle. It knocked the first morning after we brought it home (mid-morning, about 45 degrees outside, another in a long series of rainy days) Duration was at least five seconds. Two days later after not taking it out, same conditions, same result, but only 2-3 seconds and not as severe. And I've been checking the oil each time I use it. So far, doesn't appear that I've lost any oil at all. And, no error codes of any kind thrown.

    DIY...Used to do most of the basic stuff, but that was when cars were simpler and I was younger. Now my efforts are mostly around watching things carefully and paying attention.
     
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  18. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Sounds like a plan:).

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
  19. New River Mike

    New River Mike New Member

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    That's an interesting idea, and I have to assume you've had this issue at some point in the past and that this solved the problem. Depending on the outcome, or for that matter, even if the dealership ends up doing something of substance, I'll keep this in mind. However, I feel pretty certain that our Prius was in EV mode when I pulled in my driveway on the evening I picked it up, because my wife specifically remarked on how weird it was to hear a vehicle simply "glide" up the street and into the driveway - because the Prius was operating solely on the electric motor.
    Nevertheless, I'll bear this in mind and I appreciate your sharing a possible solution.
     
  20. New River Mike

    New River Mike New Member

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    I've been updating this information under another post (someone more experienced on this site than I am moved it) but we still ended up with some spill-over, so just in case, I'll summarize where this ended up. There is a little more specific information on "Newb Question, Used Prius, TSB Issue" https://priuschat.com/posts/2539368/

    Our Prius spent two nights at the dealership but they were unable to reproduce the knocking on multiple start-ups. I was given some information about a warranty extension for the EGR valve issue and as the service manager (SM) and I ended our conversation outside (with me in the car). I started to pull away and the knocking appeared for 2-3 seconds. The SM heard it, and he advised me to monitor the frequency, circumstances, etc. and I headed home. Five miles out and I noticed the CEL light was on. Called the SM but got voicemail and headed home, with a message that I would return the car early this week.

    Back to the dealership after two days. CEL was on Monday AM but gone by PM when my wife met me at the dealership. Next day I get a call from the SM; did NOT find code P0401, which evidently points to the EGR valve, but they made the decision to replace the intake manifold instead - at no charge. What I heard was that this was not tied to the warranty extension but instead was a good will gesture to make sure I would be a satisfied customer. Considering that I just bought this vehicle, and that it did come with a 90-day or 1000 mile powertrain warranty, this is probably what drove the decision.

    I get the car back today. For the time, I think I can say that I am a very satisfied customer, and certainly a bit more knowledgeable. We're really looking forward to a long and pleasant ownership experience. And I am truly appreciative of the knowledge and ideas I've already picked up here. Thanks to everyone who tossed in an idea or observation or a bit of knowledge.
     
    #20 New River Mike, May 11, 2017
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
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