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Shifting to Neutral Requiring a "Hold."

Discussion in 'Prime Technical Discussion' started by psoque, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. psoque

    psoque Member

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    Hi. This is not our new Toyota, but this Prime Advanced is our first "modern" Toyota and our first hybrid. We just noticed that the car requires us to "hold" the shifter in "neutral" position for a bout 1-2 seconds (approx) for it to engage in neutral. Shifting to others does not appear to require this extra "hold." Is there a good engineering/safety reason for this feature?
     
  2. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    No. Why would you ever want to be in N? Toyota is required by law in the US to offer N, but it almost never is what you want.

    (I can think of two reasons, you want to test your friction brakes, and you are suffering from the mythical unintended acceleration)
     
  3. tpenny67

    tpenny67 Active Member

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    I suspect it's because the shifter springs back through N after you select R or D, and thus the requirement to hold it in N to actually select N. If the shifter actually stayed in the position of the selected "gear", you wouldn't need to hold to get into N, and you could tell what "gear" you were in by position of the shifter, just like the old days of about 10 years ago.

    These newfangled shifters are HORRIBLE, and have KILLED people including the actor who plays Chekov in the new Star Trek movies: When Bad UI Design Kills: Is Poor Shift Lever Design to Blame for Death of Star Trek Actor? - Core77

    As for the usefulness of N itself, I find it absolutely vital. For example, if you break down and the car is being hoisted onto a flatbed tow truck, the car will be put into N. Also, after driving the car up on ramps to do an oil change, I use N to allow the car to settle naturally into position at the top of the ramps, and make sure it's not trying to roll back down the ramps. (just make sure to put it back in P and chock the wheels before climbing under!) Both of these uses involve top speeds well under 1 mph.
     
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  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Accidentally shifting to neutral with the old mechanical shifters was a common problem rarely talked about.

    I remember that happening with the old 90's Corolla from time to time. Just bumping the shifter reaching for something was enough to nudge it out of drive.
     
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  5. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    Jimbo has it right........except for the first word. ;)

    YES there is a good reason for having it that way.
    You should NOT use N in any kind of "normal" daily driving conditions.
     
  6. priuscatprimeguy

    priuscatprimeguy Senior Member

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    duh......car wash?:p
     
  7. tpenny67

    tpenny67 Active Member

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    Another good time to use N (but probably not relevant to a Prius): Sometimes when trying to stop on ice, the un-driven wheels will lock up while the engine is still driving the driven wheels, especially when the engine is idling fast during warmup. Not so much a problem with ABS and traction control, but scary as hell with rear wheel drive when the front tires lock up and the rear tires are still pushing. Pop the transmission into N and now all wheels are helping to stop.

    None of these count a "normal" driving situations, but you can have my N position when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands :)
     
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  8. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Neutral is easier to coast then lightly pressing on the accelerator and holding it in just the right place for zero torque. I have a couple of places where the slope is exactly right to coast for an extended period so I use neutral in those locations.
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The reason is for safety. The shifter is an electronic switch. Without the hold, a slight bump could knock the car into neutral when not desired. My wife still managed to do it do me on the highway with the hold in our gen2.

    Some automatics have the D to N shift gated to prevent this also.
     
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  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I like Neutral for times when I'm parking on a steep hill, and want to angle the front wheels and roll a tire into firm contact with the curb. Doing This in Drive or Reverse just messes things up.

    I'd agree the electronic, return-to-centre shifter is the reason for the delay, and further: that it's a solution in search of a problem. And actually creating its share.
     
  11. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    In many winter climates, that very much does count as a 'normal' condition.

    But as you said, this doesn't apply to a Prius. It applies to old technology non-hybrid automatic transmissions lacking ABS / TC / VSC / EBD. With all these new TLA technology additions, it should now be a non-issue in most modern cars.
     
  12. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Back to the original question. As others have touched upon, you go through neutral on the way to drive and reverse and the shift lever returns through neutral when you let go. If it didn't need that pause, you'd never get anywhere; it would be stuck in neutral or park. And there may be some desire on the engineers to force you to be sure you really want neutral and aren't just shifting in a lazy way. I've hit many a false neutral that way on the motorcycle.
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    And then you looked real cool when you cranked the throttle..., been there.
     
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  14. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    How come that front wheel won't come up??!! :ROFLMAO:
     
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  15. Mark57

    Mark57 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD

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    Not so bad if you were riding a "thumper" but a whiny 2 cycle would be embarrassing. :p
     
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  16. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Pretty embarrassing on a 1,000 cc sport tourer, too. :eek:
     
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  17. scm2000

    scm2000 Active Member

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    or you are in a car wash
     
  18. suzyQ14

    suzyQ14 Junior Member

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  19. suzyQ14

    suzyQ14 Junior Member

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    All you need is a lock button to keep the shifter in place. Not an entirely new shifter that always
    pops back to center like the prius. It's just one of those annoying things car manufacturers
    do to make the car seem sexy -- when in reality it was better before.
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The traditional shifter is a hold over from when there was a mechanical connection between it and the transmission. With electronic transmissions they aren't needed, and making them look and feel like how people's parent's and grandparent's shifters work takes up space and adds weight. Pull one apart and you'll likely find that the shift lever is flipping electric switches as you move it back and for.
     
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