Shooting on Virginia Tech campus

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Apr 16 2007, 01:00 PM) [snapback]424184[/snapback]</div>

1) I don't know, but my knee-jerk is to say yeah it was an act of terror, what do you think?

2) Domestic terror is probably not included within the broad term of "War On Terror" but that doesn’t mean we shouldn't address it in one way of the other. Domestic terror of this sort is addressed by state and national law enforcement I believe.

3) Need to look at the FBI and state orgy’s to figure that one out and I for one have been more focused on international.

Wildkow

p.s. God Bless the Hokies.

 

Please, do not let this thread turn into a 2nd Amendment debate.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 16 2007, 02:55 PM) [snapback]424231[/snapback]</div>

Indeed. It's really sad. What else can you say.

 

It's my alma mater. It's hallowed, sacred ground to me.

I'm in shock for a bit...

Sorry, Evan, don't get me started arguing with you again. Or you either, desynch.

This is absolutely horrible. I can't imagine what the parents are going through. I just can't imagine it. Senseless, senseless, senseless, senseless, senseless, senseless, senseless, senseless, senseless. Horrific. Horrific.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Apr 16 2007, 01:42 PM) [snapback]424121[/snapback]</div>

They're apparently rewriting that. I looked at it, and it only had 3 shootings: Columbine, U of T-Austin, and Killeen TX (not a school shooting, but the largest # of people killed). Then I went back just to double-check something, and the story was only two paragraphs long.

 

Sadly, there have been a few that have done such things since time memorial.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Apr 16 2007, 10:16 PM) [snapback]424244[/snapback]</div>

Absolutely. But fortunately, it's mercifully rare for those of us living in the west. Be thankful for that.

If you were in Iraq, this sort of incident would be pretty much daily routine. Is it any wonder the populace aren't too happy with the invading forces, with this scale of murder every day?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Apr 16 2007, 05:16 PM) [snapback]424244[/snapback]</div>

Me too, class of '82. Simply unbelievable.

 

32 dead (so far). 33 if you count the gunman.

Gunman kills 32 at Virginia Tech.

"Students bitterly complained that there were no public-address announcements on campus after the first burst of gunfire. Many said the first word they received from the university was an e-mail more than two hours into the rampage — around the time the gunman struck again.

Virginia Tech President Charles Steger said authorities believed that the shooting at the dorm was a domestic dispute and mistakenly thought the gunman had fled the campus.

"We had no reason to suspect any other incident was going to occur," he said."

 

I just don't see any way they could've shut down campus. They shut down West AJ (the dorm) where the first incident occurred. The campus is HUMONGOUS, with lots o' folks living on campus and more streaming in and out from every direction. It would have taken longer than two hours to secure all the people on campus and the building. Until some proof of bumbling rears its head, I have to think there's not a lot that campus security or the local police force could've done to stop any of it. They don't even know for sure if the two incidents are definitely connected, even though it would be a really weird coincidence if it wasn't.

For those of you that haven't been to the 'burg (as we call it), it's wedged amongst the mountains and cow fields. It's just a peaceful place, with New River flowing closely by. I lived in the 'burg for 11 years of my life (5 1/2 from birth through 1st grade, then from 17-22 for college). It's still the place I call home, and where I still hope one day my son will go to college. When that happens, though, there'll be a little whisper of doubt at the back of my mind about his safety. Hell, I guess everyone who has kids in college or going to college will do the same...

Our fight song is called "Tech Triumph." I hope it does.

Those poor parents...

 

Are the campus police even armed?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Apr 16 2007, 09:15 PM) [snapback]424338[/snapback]</div>

Yes, they are. Can we not get started down this road or else I'm gonna go off?

Thank you for your earlier sentiments, kow. Indeed, God bless the Hokies.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Apr 16 2007, 04:07 PM) [snapback]424309[/snapback]</div>

I had heard that the campus is like a small city, with some 9,000 students enrolled and 26,000 people total who work or attend classes there, and that it is huge in area too. And since the first shootings were reported during drive time commutes, there was no way to "warn" everyone on that campus.

I also heard today that the initial description from the dorm in the morning was that the killer was a white male with greasy slicked back hair and a truck with a southern state's plates (but not VA). The shooter in the classrooms, more than two hours later, was reportedly a Chinese exchange student who doesn't match that description at all. Last I heard, they were waiting on ballastic reports to say if the two incidents were from the same shooter (that was three hours ago).

I can't imagine anything worse, as a parent, than having your child murdered. It is always senseless. It will be important to discuss the events, and the ways we can increase security, but probably the only good thing we can do now is pray for the families (if you are the praying type).

 

i went to college at a university with ~9000 students on a small, intimate campus in a small town. i can't imagine how people would cope with a situation like that, so unexpected. that's a living situation where people feel safe. how that could happen, i just don't understand.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Apr 16 2007, 04:16 PM) [snapback]424244[/snapback]</div>

I have friends there, old and new. I don't know what to say, other then I am sorry it has happened.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Apr 16 2007, 06:23 PM) [snapback]424342[/snapback]</div>

Thank you lively and sorry about starting down that road but it is an elemet to this tragedy and I shall tred as lightly upon it as possible.

Wildkow

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Apr 16 2007, 11:42 AM) [snapback]424121[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Apr 16 2007, 02:20 PM) [snapback]424245[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Apr 16 2007, 02:24 PM) [snapback]424248[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KMO @ Apr 16 2007, 02:35 PM) [snapback]424249[/snapback]</div>

I see a few comments about our society, its problems and past events of a similar nature but sad to say as pointed out above this has been going on for a long time so it is not just our present day society. Take what solace, if any you can in this trivial fact. All in all we try to do good and the vast amount of acts are of that nature, its just the heinous of these type acts that cause us to doubt ourselves. If we let that happen the person who perpetrated these terrible acts injuries us further, don’t go there please. It’s bad for you and bad for all of us.

Does anyone recall the 1927 Bath School Disaster/Massacre in Michigan? I don't know why Wiki refers to it as a disaster instead of a massacre because that makes it sound as if there was no human element to the intentional murder of 45 people and injury to 58 others, mostly children, in a series of three planned explosions. The Wiki also refers to it as the second worst school disaster/massacre which makes no sense to me but that is the way it’s reported and is rarely if ever referred to by the media during events like todays. Perhaps they don't want to detract from the sensationalism of the story, issues such as societal problems and/or others.

Wildkow

 

Wildkow - I think they don't refer to it because it was a different method of attack - bombings instead of gunfire. Also with it being so far in the past, a very small percentage of the population remembers it occurring, while almost everyone remembers columbine, and the baby boomer's remember texas.

As others have said, the universities slow actions are reprehensible. For it to take 2 hours to get an announcement out to the student body is horribly slow. I wonder how many people would have stayed away from campus or holed up in their dorm room if they had known at 8 what happened. Would the gunman have had that second opportunity? Would there have been far less people for him to injure?

Likewise, with the shooting at Case Western, i didn't know about it until my mom called me to ask if i was alright. And i was on campus at the time.

Likewise, during the events of 9/11 the city of Cleveland was practically evacuated - It has the tallest building between New York and Chicago, and city officials were afraid any plane targeting Chicago would ditch out early in Cleveland after the poo hit the fan. And yet we at school weren't told classes were canceled and that we should stay in our dorms until 2PM that afternoon... what is that, like 5 hours after the event?

Given the connection most kids have with the world, it's amazing in this day and age that schools can't (or won't) get the word out sooner. Schools should have a very simple emergency contact form that all students are required to fill out every year, with only three pieces of information - e-mail, IM, and cell phone. An event happens, and the school should have an automated system (or at the very minimum have the RA's implement it manually) to contact every student through those three means. Even if it's just a text message.

 

While I agree that two hours is a long time, I don't find fault. From what I've gather from the news, the school was reacting to what it thought was an isolated domestic dispute turned bad. They locked down the dorm, albeit not as efficiently as one would hope. (What school practices the lock-down procedure when students are present anyway?) I'm sure the administrators contacted legal about an email (the school is a business, and no business would send out a memo, even internal, without going through the legal department, or some higher-up). I really don't think two hours is that long of a time. In fact, I think it was rather good on their part. Hindsight being 20/20, an email in one hour would have been better, but the majority of people still would have been in transit or already on campus.

The main point here is that the school reacted quickly and correctly for the first incident. They followed their procedures. They had no reason to think that anything else would happen. Unfortunately... But I still do not find fault with the administration/campus police/etc. until they come out and say, "This is where we messed up..."