Shooting on Virginia Tech campus

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Apr 16 2007, 11:14 AM) [snapback]424090[/snapback]</div>

A terrible tragedy. My heart goes out to the victims and their families. Anger makes people act irrationally. I see no other "explanation."

I commend everyone for not turning this into the usual political argument.

 

This was a campus of some 25,000 students, 10,000 faculty, 1000s support people. Campus was spread out over large area. How can you lock down an area like that. Students are coming to campus from all over...they would be locked out wondering what is going on. Students live on campus...where do they go if classes are cancelled. Even if they thought they had a continuing problem, I don't think you can control something like that. It is like a small city. If a man shoots his wife in a small town, do you lock everyone in their homes and stores so the police can run around town? Also, how do communicate with students over a large area. Many live off campus. Who checks e-mail every 5 minutes.

 

While i don't know the details behind this picture, but i have to wonder why someone would be handled this way, especially when injured or dead.


The picture is from the shootings.

For anyone who doesn't know, this wasn't a case of "get him out fast, the gunman is still shooting" - from all accounts the gunman killed himself only moments after the police stormed the building.

Also, for those who want, here is the text of the e-mails sent to the student body (according to blogs):

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Apr 17 2007, 08:38 AM) [snapback]424643[/snapback]</div>

With two shootings within two hours the police probaby had no idea if there was only one shooter. I'd guess that these guys were trying to remove a wounded person in the quickest way possible, w/o knowing if they are in the line of fire or not.

 

BLACKSBURG, Va., April 16 -- An outburst of gunfire at a Virginia Tech dormitory, followed two hours later by a ruthless string of attacks at a classroom building, killed 32 students, faculty and staff and left about 30 others injured yesterday in the deadliest shooting rampage in the nation's history.

The shooter, whose name was not released last night, wore bluejeans, a blue jacket and a vest holding ammunition, witnesses said. He carried a 9mm semiautomatic and a .22-caliber handgun, both with the serial numbers obliterated, federal law enforcement officials said. Witnesses described the shooter as a young man of Asian descent -- a silent killer who was calm and showed no expression as he pursued and shot his victims. He killed himself as police closed in.
He had left two dead at the dormitory and 30 more at a science and engineering building, where he executed people taking and teaching classes after chaining some doors shut behind him. At one point, he shot at a custodian who was helping a victim. Witnesses described scenes of chaos and grief, with students jumping from second-story windows to escape gunfire and others blocking their classroom doors to keep the gunman away. April 17 -- Virginia Tech president Charles W. Steger said today that the gunman who rampaged through the campus on Monday leaving 32 dead was a student who lived in one of the school's dormitories.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...600533.html?g=1

As for the officers carrying the injured away by hand, Yes, they would do so to to get them out of harms way ASAP and to medical care. Instead of leaving them in the possible line of fire to be killed... :mellow:

If you put your self in the victims shoes you would be happy they carried you out by hand.. :mellow:

 

How Ironic!

<blockquote>Liviu Librescu, 76, a professor at Virginia Tech, was recognized internationally for his research in aeronautical engineering, the head of the Engineering Science and Mechanics Department at Virginia Tech told AP. Librescu, an Israeli Holocaust survivor, was born and received his advanced degrees in Romania.</blockquote>
Rest in Peace

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Apr 17 2007, 11:38 AM) [snapback]424643[/snapback]</div>

Wait. In an earlier post you stated you believed the response to the initial shooting to be slow and reprehensible because the assumption was that it was an isolated incident/over. Now you're critical of the manner in which they carried the victim out, assuming the danger is over (which it may or may not have been, for all they knew).
I think their response was appropriate, as others have pointed out here (so I won't go into the details). We (as a people) seem to be focused (and quite adept) at pointing out what was done wrong in situations that many of us will thankfully never have to particiapate in. It's almost like we've become a culture of pouncers waiting for the next victim to rail against.

 

More on the first page of discussion about this than the most recent posts... Why do you think this is an act of terrorism or mental illness?

Do you think VT takes a lot of mentally ill students?

Seems like an act done by a guy who had a lot of evil inside.

Would have been different odds if 1 or 2 out of every 3 students was packin their own heat. As it was, pretty much a shooting gallery. One account from a doctor said every patient they'd seen so far had at least 3 bullet holes. I kinda like the idea that when people start hearing the shots go off, they all whip out their glock's and prepare to nullify the problem. What gunman would enter the school knowing 100 out of 1000 probably are going to fire back?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ Apr 17 2007, 12:16 PM) [snapback]424698[/snapback]</div>

I felt that the universities response was slow. In this situation, however, the police had control of the building and the corpse of the shooter - there was no pressing need to handle people that way. Additionally, if you want to carry someone out, you don't do it by their hands and feet with a group of 4 people - not when there are so many more wounded. There are other methods of carrying people out of a building that are much more effective and equally as safe - for example the fireman's carry which soldiers are trained in. It only takes one person, and is a much quicker than trying to crab walk with 3 other people.

 

I would, out of respect for the others, not go there. (the what-ifs)

Stunning.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Apr 17 2007, 01:04 PM) [snapback]424733[/snapback]</div>

Daron, lets try not to turn this into a "right to bear arms" discussion and keep it focused on the event.

 

Right to bear arms is not a discussion, so far, that one is still in the bill of rights.

I was asking why ya'll think we have to blame this on Mental Illness? We have to find some chicken excuse for it and someone else to blame.... No... Just the shooter, he was the guy..

 

The killer was like people that nearly all of us has known (except for the final step):

- a loner
- he did not deal with life well
- because he did not deal with it - he got frustrated
- he went way over the edge and struck out with deadly force

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Apr 17 2007, 01:24 PM) [snapback]424750[/snapback]</div>

By definition he was mentally ill.
I firmly believe that the cause of these mass murder suicides is a side effect of treatment with psychotropic drugs.
Examine these horrific episodes and you will find that the murderer was being treated for a mental disorder with antidepressants.I know this was the case with Columbine and another which occurred a few years back.Today I read the murderer was using psychiatric drugs as well.
Finally the FDA requires labeling of antidepressants warning of causing suicidal tendencies.
But I believe there is a relationship with murder /suicide which the Pharmaceutical industry and the FDA is covering up.

 

What a sad day it is here in America today, and all for why. My heat breaks for all the people who have to suffer this for the rest of their lives. All these fine souls are now lost forever, how shamful this is.

What you take into your hands, so do you take into your heart... take peace in your hands, and it will be with you in your hearts.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Apr 17 2007, 11:04 AM) [snapback]424733[/snapback]</div>

Labelling people as "evil" solves nothing. History teaches us that ordinary people, placed in suitable circumstances, are capable of extraordinary deeds, both for good and for ill. When we label people as "evil" we shirk the job of trying to understand what makes people crack. The human mind is an imperfect process, and sometimes it goes haywire. Powerful emotions can overwhealm reason. Why people turn to violence in their private lives, their public lives, or in the political lives of nations is a question that is not answered with the word "evil." But if, by rational investigation, we could begin to understand this question, we could make our homes, our streets, and out world into better places.

Mourn the dead, and then put renewed energy into trying to understand why these things happen. We'll probably never be able to prevent all violence. But we certainly have a great deal of room to reduce it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 17 2007, 12:55 PM) [snapback]424832[/snapback]</div>

Very true Daniel. I seem to remember an experiment awhile back where college students were given an adjustable fake electric shocking device and were supposed to use it as a reward/punishment device on another student. The results were that almost all with the device gave out painfully high levels of voltage and some went as high as deadly levels of voltage. As far as I know no levels of stress were involved with the experiment.

Wildkow

 

Stop making excuses for this killer. He is a killer, for whatever reason.

I'm not going to try to justify what he did by talking about medications.. depressions.. anxiety..

Screw that guy.