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(Simple?) questions about Prius operation

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by LDB, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. LDB

    LDB Member

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    My understanding of Prius operation is that when you back out of the driveway and head out of the neighborhood the Prius runs on battery only thereby getting a zillion or so mpg through the neighborhood.

    Based on a new 2013 Prius:
    Is that correct of how it operates in the neighborhood?
    What is the approximate maximum speed capable on electric only?
    What is the average range possible on electric only?
    Is the heater electric or "normal" automotive type requiring heated coolant in the radiator?
    Is the a/c electric or "normal" automotive type requiring the IC engine to run?
    Will the car run on electric only if the headlights and windshield wipers have to run?
    Is there a computer that tracks how many miles/time are run on electric only?

    I'm sure there are other dumb questions to ask but can't think of them so I'll save them for another time. Thanks for any/all input.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    check out the knowledge based articles forum at the bottom of the forums main page. there's a sticky on the five levels of hybrid operation and many other interesting threads. also, john1701's home page has some great info and links.
     
  3. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    John's Stuff - Toyota Prius and more Great place to start! :)
     
  4. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Is that correct of how it operates in the neighborhood?
    I am on my second Prius and I view it totally differently.

    The Prius engine is designed to cruise efficiently, it is called the Atkinson cycle, although technically I think it is closer to the Miller Cycle.
    Most car engines are designed to make maximum power, called the Otto Cycle.

    So a 'engine only' Prius would still get extremely good gas mileage, but would be unacceptably under powered to accelerate quickly. Toyota's excellent solution to a lack of power is to add a 50 HP electric motor to provide needed power when requested. But now you need to have a large battery to feed the motor, and another motor to feed the battery.

    So I view it as a gas powered car with a motor to add power when needed. As a side benefit, when the car needs so little power that even the Atkinson cycle engine is inefficient, the computers can cruise on motor power only.

    So with the provision that YOU should never be trying to be in an electric only mode, if that is the best way the computers will choose it, here are your answers for any of the non Plug In Prius.

    With the engine cold, the engine will always start and warm up the catalytic converter, you never do electric only when first starting. (You can over ride this if you never go over 10 MPH and conditions are just right, but your MPG will suffer)

    What is the approximate maximum speed capable on electric only?
    Cold 10 MPH, once warmed up the computers can go all electric to 41 MPH, you can select it to 25 MPH.

    What is the average range possible on electric only?
    If I was going highway speeds for over 10 miles, and I coast to a slower speed, I can go 29 MPH for 1.3 miles before the engine starts, so long as I do not have to accelerate.

    Is the heater electric or "normal" automotive type requiring heated coolant in the radiator?
    The main cabin heater is a radiator, heated by engine coolant. when running the defroster two PTC electric ceramic heaters add about 300 watts of heat.

    Is the a/c electric or "normal" automotive type requiring the IC engine to run?
    Since 2004, the A/C is powered by a 201 volt electric motor powered by the big battery, so engine speed is not important.

    Will the car run on electric only if the headlights and windshield wipers have to run?
    Yes I never turn my headlights off, as I always wish to be seen by my fellow drivers.

    Is there a computer that tracks how many miles/time are run on electric only?
    No, the engine is mostly off in no speed/low speed conditions, almost all your miles of travel will be engine on. (Again except for the plug in)

    Otto cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Atkinson cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Miller cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    It'll only behave like that if it's previously been fully warmed up, you parked, and it hasn't sat for very long. The car does lots of electric-only propulsion, but typically with light loads and/or lower speeds, when the car's at least 1/2 way towards fully warmed up. Above some speed (around 75 kmh) it locks out EV mode, due to mechanical limitations of the transaxle.

    When it's in electric-only mode the range is pretty limited. One instance I notice: we park in one of those parking garages often, where you spiral up through the levels. Typically the whole run up, through 3 or 4 levels, is in electric-mode, but by the time we park the battery's getting pretty low. Once it get's down to 2 pips remaining the engine fires up.

    The simplest way to get a little more electric-only is to lift off the gas pedal, then gently re-press. If you aggressively pursue electric-only mode you will run the battery down. No big deal, but I try to back off on electric-only tactics once it's down to half depleted, switch to pulse-and-glide instead.
     
  6. LDB

    LDB Member

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    I'm curious because I may get a job 2 miles away with 1.5 miles being residential with a 30mph speed limit. The last 1/2 mile has a 40 limit but could be driven slower. I just wondered if it would be possible to make the drive there and back on battery only, at least some of the time. Since there's no plug it would obviously have to run sometimes to recharge. Alternatively, perhaps the first 1.5 miles on the way with the ICE kicking in for the last 1/2 mile and the ICE the first 1/2 mile on the way home and then electric through the neighborhood.
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    ^ No warm up, no electric-mode.

    Walk?
     
  8. LDB

    LDB Member

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    A few decades ago I'd have bicycled. At this stage in life with south Texas heat and humidity I'll stick to driving. I'd hoped there'd be a way to get a good bit of electric only operation from a Prius for that particular commute.
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Your situation would be ideal for a plug-in Prius. As long as you have access to secure 110 volt outlet.

    But with a regular Prius, there's an EV button, but it has a 50/50 chance (at best) of giving you electric-mode. The rest of the time it says "not available at this time", something like that. It's very finicky.

    Yesterday I was trying to use it to get the car out into the driveway for a wash. Battery was showing near full, and ambient temperatures a nice 19~20 Centigrade. But no EV for me ;(

    When you start the car you have about 20 seconds of EV, regardless of the situation, before the gas kicks in, but that's all.
     
  10. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    1) Gas engine fires up within x seconds to warm up first drive of day
    2) Gas engine seems like it's idling when moseying down street, but can tell it is blending the power, so I say it's both gas and electric through the neighborhood in morning.
    3) About 42 MPH electric only, once in a blue
    4) I don't think about range possible on electric only and don't try to milk it, let it do its thing

    5) I believe heater uses hot coolant

    6) Ah, the A/C is run off electric compressor, by the hybrid system

    ... that said, I would not recommend: 1) setting off with 'cold' gas engine 2) getting straight into heavy city traffic and blasting the A/C ... I've seen it run off the electric drive, but this will deplete the battery charge a good bit, then gas may kick on for 'longer than you'd like to gain back charge' ... sooo, roll down windows and maybe use light A/C when setting off cold. YRMV

    7) Will it 'EV' with headlights and wipers running .... heck yeah.
    8) not sure if the 2012+ has some EV stats, but the 2010 / 11's do not to my knowlege.
     
  11. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Don't take this wrong way, but IF you only have a 2 mile commute and perhaps don't drive a heck of a lot after work / weekends, I say skip the whole hybrid thing.

    It's not good to 'try' to run Prius (or Camry hybrid, etc....) on battery only unless they want to.

    Prius does not accelerate very well, at all, only battery only. You have to accelerate VERY slowly to reach even 30 MPH electric only. Waste of time and efficiency. Takes a Large traction battery to accelerate a 3,000 car with flow of traffic.

    I guess a plug-in Prius would get you 2 miles to work with no gas, but I 'think' if you fire up the heater, gas engine is prone to turn on ( there are heated seats).

    When warmed up , I can get a lot of EV in our 25 MPH home tract. Parking lots, EV of course, drive through, etc..

    My suggestion .... spend a few bucks and rent a Prius (or Camry hybrid or another hybrid) for a day or two. check it out, take it to work.
     
  12. LDB

    LDB Member

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    No, nothing to take wrong at all. Thanks for the feedback. In addition to the short commute most weeks would include a ~95 mile round trip to meet my cousin for lunch plus errands now and then, trip to the used bookstore, etc.. I'm sure I could probably do as well overall with a plain Civic/Corolla or similar. I thought the hybrid might prove beneficial for that commute though and 20 miles a week would add up over time. Thanks for all the good responses so far. They are helpful.
     
  13. Munpot42

    Munpot42 Senior Member

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    Nobody seemed to mention it but reguarding your question about reverse. Reverse is electric only at all times, whether the engine is running or not. If your going in reverse your moving by electric power only.
     
  14. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    If you make it to work in 5 minutes or so, the average MPGs are not going to be all that great. Gas engine running like Jimbo said just to warm up catalytic converter for cleaner emissions.
     
  15. andreyco

    andreyco Member

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    I find that the Prius doesn't do so well on short trips like the one you have for work. By the time you get to work the engine will have barely finished warming up. You will be getting maybe 25 MPG if you only count your 2 mile "commute"
     
  16. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    It should be higher than 25 MPG typically, but of course varies due to temp, heater use, etc...