Smart Key or Not?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by donzoh1, Aug 22, 2020.

  1. donzoh1

    donzoh1 Active Member

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    My 2007 has a key fob that has a black logo so I don't think it's a smart key. It can be used to start the car but it won't lock or unlock doors. I've replaced the battery and the red light flashes on the fob when buttons are pushed. The car does have the black release sensor on the hatch. Techstream says at least 5 keys have been paired with the car but i only have 1. Would it work to get a new smart key fob? Is there a way to tell whether the car will accept a new smart key fob or to make this one lock and unlock doors? I do have a key on the key ring that unlocks the door but the small key in the fob is not cut.
     
  2. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Well, if you have the black button on the door, and you have the button on the dash area under the steering wheel that says "KEY" then you have an SKS car. If your driver door and passenger door handle do not have the button and you don't have the KEY button under the steering wheel, then you have a non-sks car.

    You would need to delete some of the 5 keys from the car to make room for another.
     
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  3. donzoh1

    donzoh1 Active Member

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    Thanks for that info.
     
  4. donzoh1

    donzoh1 Active Member

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    Any ideas about why the non-smart fob would function to start the car but not open the doors? In this case, the battery in the fob is new and the red light flashes on it when buttons are pushed.
     
  5. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Are you putting the fob in the slot to start the car or leaving it in your pocket? Our spare fob for the wife's 2007 with SKS was a non-SKS fob. I had to put it in the slot to start the car.
     
  6. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Yes. The non-SKS (RKE) fob and the SKS fob use the same RFID transponder chip, but different radio transmit/receive printed circuit boards to operate the remote lock/unlock and proximity lock/unlock and start, respectively. So you cannot operate the SKS with an RKE fob and vice versa but the fob in the slot will work. Additionally, the RKE fob only needs to transmit, but the SKS fob needs to transmit and receive to function.

    The RFID transponder chip (together with the metal key) is the fallback system to unlock/lock and start the car in the event of a flat battery in the fob as it uses induction power to operate. So, whether you have a flat battery or a new battery is irrelevant in this regard.
     
    #6 dolj, Aug 24, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
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  7. donzoh1

    donzoh1 Active Member

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    Not sure whether I understand all the terms here but I'm trying to figure out why the RKE function doesn't work. The fob lacks the chrome logo so I know It's non-SKS. But, it does have buttons to lock or unlock doors and I'm wondering why they don't work. The battery is new and the red light works. Is it programming or more likely a defective fob?
     
  8. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    It could be either, but more likely the former.

    You haven't confirmed whether the car itself is SKS or not.

    On an SKS car, there is no black release sensor in the hatch. The unlock function is incorporated in the release switch. You press once to unlock then again to open.

    The black button is to lock the car and if you have that you should also have a black button on each of the front doors as well as a "Key" button inside as mentioned by TMR-JWAP in post #2.

    If you have an SKS car and an RKE fob, the fob will never be able to be used for remote lock/unlock. SKS and RFE use different radio protocols.

    Like TMR-JWAP said, if you have 5 fobs registered you will not be able to add another until you clear out the old ones for which you do not have fobs. Further, you will not be able to add a new key fob without having a completely functional key fob unless you do a reset and reseed to start from scratch. For this, you will need to employ the services of a dealer or an authorized auto locksmith.
     
  9. Seninha

    Seninha Junior Member

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    I am having same issue. But the other way around. I do have a NON SKS Prius but 2 SKS keys (zilver Logo). I can start the car , but i am not able to luck or unlock the doors using the fob.

    Idea now is to get me a used Non SKS key.....move RFID chip from my working key to the used Non SKS fob. And then program lock and unlock of the car.
    Will this work?
     
  10. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    You don't have to move the chip, just use the procedure A in the "Chicken Dance". Use the working key as the "old" key, and the used Non-SKS fob as the "new" key fob.
    If you don't have a fully working key fob, you will not be able to use the "Chicken Dance" to do that. It is, however, possible to use a used RKE fob, but it requires acquiring a seed code and doing the reset and reseed procedure. After you have done that you will have one fully functional key fob. You can then add a second (brand new) RKE key fob using the chicken dance or the add fob procedure in Techstream. If you wanted to add a second used RKE key fob, you would need to do that at the same time as the reset and reseed.
     
    #10 dolj, Aug 31, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
  11. Seninha

    Seninha Junior Member

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    dolj:

    after a long time driving around without being able to lock and unlock the car with my fob, i ordered 2 new Non-Smartkeys form the States (through a friend of my who lives in Miami)

    When I received the fob I was able to program them to start the car by using Techstream, but not having a fob that was able to lock and unlock the car, i still not able to program the new fob to do this, like you mention.

    I went to my dealer and they were also not able to arrange this. They give me 2 reasons: 1st: not original fob, 2de : fob already program to start the car.

    You mentioned that i need to do the reset and reseed procedure. About this reset and reseed.Is this also for NON SMART keys?
    And ,when I reset and reseed, will this make this 2 new fobs which already can start the car to stop working? but also old fobs that I still have here?

    After done that will I be able to make them work again? Or do i need new fobs again?

    Last: can you explain exactly what reset and reseed does?
     
    #11 Seninha, Jul 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  12. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    Not sure on the Gen II, but you can add up to seven keys to the Gen III.
     
  13. Seninha

    Seninha Junior Member

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    Today I started my laptop to see if I could find the option to Reset and Reseed my fob, but I was not able to find it.
    My idea is that due to the fact that I do have a Non-Smartkey car, this function does not show up in Techstream.

    After looking around i found inside the BODY section, functions to reset and configurate the Wireless code.
    First option, reset, shows me that there are No fobs register, therefore i am not able to reset.

    Second option, Register a Wireless code does start up, but after following up what is written on the screen, nothing happens.
    I am not able to register my fob to open or close the doors.

    Both fobs are new, purchase from RemoteRemote. And are already programmed to start the car using techstream software.

    No idea what to do next to keyless entry to work
     
  14. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I'm curious about your techstream. Once online with the vehicle, one of the very first screens shows the vehicle information and you have to select whether it has SKS or not. Every Gen2 I've worked on has had the SKS system, so I've always selected "with SKS" before proceeding further in the program.

    What are you selecting?
     
  15. Seninha

    Seninha Junior Member

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    I always choose Non SKS
    Thought this should be the right option not having a Smartkey. My prius is from 2004 and does not have any smart key option.
     
  16. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Sorry about getting back to you late, but have been away from home for a few days.
    I would be concerned about using US market fobs in Europe. They might not work unless you were 100% sure the radio frequecncies used in the EU and US were the same. You cannot guarantee that, and I know that the frequenies used in my region are different from the US so US fobs are not compatible here.

    If you were unsure I would just buy new fobs from your dealer and have them add them to your car. If they say that cannot be done then they are pretty useless and maybe try and find another dealership to use.
    Just to clarify, you do not have keyless entry (SKS), you have remote key entry (RKE), just to reduce the likelihood of confusion to people following the thread. ;)(y):whistle:
     
    #16 dolj, Jul 24, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  17. Seninha

    Seninha Junior Member

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    DOLJ:
    I mean remote key entry. (RKE)..I just want to open and close the doors using my fob buttons.
    About freq, everything i read is that Non smartkeys use the 315Mhz freq.
    Was not aware that US and Europe could use different frequencies.
     
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