Smoke and Mirrors

Sorry if I go off topic (like this thread isn't already). I did not choose the 50 mile commute. I got a job here in Long Island, NY. But rent out here is ridicules (blame on the high property tax). Of course you can argue that I can always pay $1k/month to rent a single room apt. But that's just outside my budget. That's one of the reasons I got the Prius when I shop for a new car for my new job.

 

Did anyone else just see malorn change the subject?

At one point he's talking about GM and Ford going belly up because Americans aren't buying GM and Ford, and then he goes back to bashing Toyota because of their "green" image. Two completely separate things.

Don't try to dodge the subject.

 

but for every "personal" choice we make, we must ask ourselves how it will effect others and to what extent. Many don't do that and really don't care. That is how America is viewed. We don't give a hoot about anyone else as long as our lifestyle is lavish to extreme degrees.

Those big gas guzzlers are polluting our air faster than that of a lower emissioned auto...I made the "personal" choice to buy hybrid because it effects people to the least extent as I can manage.

I want my son and daughter to grow up to be able to breathe the air - not lost by some selfish bast**d who wanted the biggest honkin truck available to drive 100 miles per day, so that he could own a 5000 square foot house for his family of 3.

again...topic at hand - the evil Toyota Empire...

 

Sorry LM -

I contributed to the off-topic bit....

I am standing down now and will let the professionals take over.

 

Malorn keeps pushing on two points.

1. GM and Ford are about to go belly up, taking the country down with it
2. Toyota is lying to the public about it's image

And he goes on and on about #2 is the cause of #1, therefore Toyota must be stopped.

What a crock.

 

What do you find so funny?

I find it sad that Malorn is trying to blame a single company - Toyota - for every problem in the United States, yet he is not looking out past his blinders to see the real world.

The U.S. has a HUGE trade imbalance, and that debt isn't magic like you think it is. Malorn has been pissing and moaning about Toyota and now Wally World without looking at the real reason why the U.S. hasn't "done" anything about those cheap Chinese imports.

Debt eventually has to be picked up by somebody, an IOU if you will. In this case, China has enormous leverage against the United States and the Chinese increasingly hold most of those IOU's.

So the government will purposely make noisy press to satisfy the Sheeple, but in reality do nothing about it. Their hands are quite literally tied, along with certain other body parts.

If you think the U.S. can somehow magically ignore foreign debt obligations, then the entire house of cards will tumble down. I doubt that will happen.

Now watch Taiwan very closely. Do you REALLY think the U.S. will rush to Taiwan's aid if China should happen to take it over? Fat chance.

 

I cannot keep stressing this more. Toyota's truck business is bad for the environment, bad for fuel economy, of course, but there's no reason to single them out.

More from the Bloomberg article I posted, which is just CHOCK FULL of goodness.

What do you think of that, malorn? 60 % of all toyota vehicles sold are passenger cars... that ratio is better than even Honda, and you can see that GM has less than 50% passenger, and Ford is 33%...

Couple that with the news that SUV sales in general are down across the board, and you can see why Toyota and Honda are faring so well. They sell different kinds of cars than SUVs, but GM and Ford depend on SUVs and trucks MUCH MORE than Toyota or Honda.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1...bboQ&refer=home

You have yet to address this, malorn.

 

He did? Really??

Hehehe he does that so much I need one of my co-workers to keep track.

 

Careful with too many facts, you might frighten him

 

So what you're saying is we share a responsibility to the rest of the world. Yet you seem to be quite the advocate for taking responsibility upon one's self, to an almost militant degree.

Yet why is the US in the position it's in? Maybe because we exhibited the very same attitude on personal responsibility you've spoken so much about? We've effectively busted our asses, and created the greatest empire on the face of the earth. One might think you'd apply the same philosphy you did within the car-repo thread to other countries. Does this mean, by default, other countries have developed a sense of the "entitlement" you so speak out against?

Hmmmmm....

 

I don't think the length of commutes is always related to the larger homes and more toys. To some degree it is - a 3 bedroom Condo in downtown boston may cost 3 times as much as a larger 3 bedroom home 25 miles outside of Boston. In this instance, it's not so much living further away to afford more, it's living further away to be able to afford anything. Some people can't afford to live close to where they work.

Then you have people like myself. Big cities are nice, but I prefer to live in the suburbs. I prefer grass and trees to concrete and light posts. I live the fact that I can wake up and see a deer in the yard, or have the crap scared out of me by an opposum some night when letting the dog out. While I might be able to get this kind of life closer than 25 miles to Boston, I couldn't afford the same home (It's only 4 bedrooms, so no excess here).

I think one big issue is HOW people commute. You don't NEED a 13mpg Hummer to get you from home to your office building. A reasonbly fuel efficient sedan would handle that nicely. People need to change their thinking from the "I want" to the "I need" and purchase their vehicles accordingly. If everyone traded in their vehicles today and did just that, I bet at least half of the SUV's on the road would be taken off.

Another problem to these commutes is lack of public transportation. Here in Massachusetts, we have some commuter rail trains. They'd work great, except that all the parking lots on the outskirts always fill up. If they had more spaces, I'm sure more people would take the train.

So, I don't think cheap fuel is so much the problem. It certainly doesn't hurt, but it wasn't the cause.

 

It's very clear from the article. Toyota minivan, SUV, and pickup sales are down 7 % from year ago.

I don't think Toyota will sell more trucks than cars because *I* believe this country is strongly shifting back toward passenger cars for the long term.

Eat that.

 

I won't bet you to make you feel better. I'm sorry, i'm not as shallow as you.

 

In the grand scheme of things, the needs of Americans have not changed from 10 or 15 years ago... long before the SUV craze.

What I see from the years to come is a back to basics movement where Americans go back to cars that are more in tune with their needs, and not unneccessarily big. SUVs will turn out to be a blip in the radar as we get back to the basics with mid size and small passenger cars.

 

We don't need to listen to your ramblings about how trucks are going to kill america. The facts speak for themselves. The Asian manufacturers have (in general) proven to be more flexible in terms of adapting to shifting trends.

GM and Ford need to become at least as flexible and diverse as Toyota if they want to compete.

 

Well i'm waiting for you to come up with a better argument. We've been through this, and you're going around like a broken record.

I've come up with some hard facts that go against your argument today.