Smoke and Mirrors

The Chevy Vega with it's un-engineered aluminum enging block is definately one reason so many who bought that 'new marvel of engineering' would never buy American again! We were had, they were bad.

 

I could say something like "The Prius with it's un-engineered hybrid system which died twice on me (and died on a lot of other people) is one reason so many would never by Japanese again.

But sometimes, when you push the envelope, you get a paper cut. You just move on, especially after 30 years.

 

30 years ago I was dirt poor and not the one a massive corporation should sell 'expendable' cars to. 30 years ago I was more impressionable and belived more strongly in the good of corporations. 30 years ago just after the Vega blew up (again) I bought a Chevy Citation...another piece of junk with wheels. I'm not positive, but I think that was a 'K'car. Again, although they didn't advertise it as such, it was a 'disposable' car. Then I started buying Toyotas. They were affordable, of highest quality, ran for hundreds of thousands of miles each with little to complain about. It's not that GM lost me as a customer for my lifetime, they also lost anyone I could discourage from doing business with them (many of who became Toyota converts). GM's race to the bottom shot themselves in the foot. Fool me once...! Now multiply my personal experiences and solutions by the whole baby-boomer generation and you begin to see why short-term sightedness costs so much of the FUTURE. I learned other lessons 30 years ago which still serve me well. You too?

 

I feel bad for the workers, but not for GM. They put themselves in this position. If they had Prius, they'd probably be able to keep all those workers employed.

Maybe Toyota can help employ them

 

Gee, my dad bought an Oldsmobile Diesel soon after they got rid of the Vega. Apperantly, that was not enough to teach them, since he followed it with a 1985 (or was it an 84?) Cadillac DeVille with the 4100 aluminum engine.

That was the last GM car they bought.

Today he drives a Mazda.

 

Yes... but then the question must be asked, how far has GM pushed the envelope over the years?

 

Being the first company to offer low cost ABS across the line back in the early 90s (back when ABS was at least a 1500 dollar option) was pretty innovative. There was an engineer here who actually worked on the low cost system, and was justifiably proud of the fact that they did what the other companies couldn't do for a fraction of the cost.

But really... who cares about stopping....

 

Hmm Jonnycat26 how do you know so many won't buy Japanese???? So far everything seems just the opposite.

 

[Broken External Image]:http://www.perkydesigns.com/Pee_Wee_herman-2.jpg

 

"Yes... but then the question must be asked, how far has GM pushed the envelope over the years? "

GM has made some bold attempts. The Corvair and the Vega both pushed the envelope for radical (for US automakers) design and manufacture. The Corvair had its problems (exhaust leak, swing axles) in early years, but was nonetheless a bold and (from an engineering perspective) successful design. The Vega suffered with its unlined cylinders, but still it was a bold try. The automated Lordstown plant was ahead of its time for 1970 (just ask the UAW). And let's not forget the Sunraycer, the EV-1, and the Saturn.

I just can't think of anything in the last ten years, though. What happened?

 

Those evil sneaky Japanese are really clever: when they could not defeat us in war, they decided to seduce us into bondage by selling us better-quality cars than our own altruistic patriotic American companies were willing to make. Of course, since profit for car companies is good for everyone, the American companies were doing the proper patriotic all-American flag-waving Stars-and-Stripes Jesus-loving thing when they cut corners on quality control and sold us cars that would require constant repairs. Make no mistake: Ford and GM and Chrysler could make cars every bit as good as Toyota and Honda, if they wanted to. But quality control costs money. And Profit is patriotic. And being patriotic, they had to cut costs and make their cars as cheap as they could. But, darn it all, those horrible Japanese just came in and took unfair advantage of us by offering to sell us cars that were about 5 times more reliable than our home-grown variety. And mea culpa, I'm guilty of falling for the ruse. I should have known better! I should have known that my Prius, with double the mileage and five times the reliability, was just a trap to undermine truth, justice, and the American way. I hang my head in shame and repentence. ...It is kind of nice to get 50 mpg, though, and to feel the engine shutting off for that slow-and-go stretch through downtown.

 

When talking about corporations, all things are relative.

The fundamental purpose of a corporation is to make money. Anything you get in terms of worker safety, community service, environmental friendliness, and so forth is a bonus.

So a manufacturer becomes known as "environmentally friendly" by dumping 35% fewer toxins into the river than its competition or by pumping 25% less crap into the atmosphere.

Toyota doesn't have to specialize in solar-powered cars made out of recycled milk jugs to qualify as "environmentally friendly." They just have to be more environmentally friendly than the competition, which its dedication to hybrid technology achieves.

They're still a car company. They still have to build what the public wants, and with the Ford F-150 and GM Silverado pickups topping the bestseller list, Toyota would be foolish not to tap into that market. To their credit, they also devoted lots of resources and a few money-losing, price-subsidized years into designing, building and marketing the Prius.

Maybe they operated out of social conscience. Maybe they looked into the future and foresaw a market for this type of vehicle. Maybe they were just hedging their bets. Any way you look at it, though, it adds up to Better Management than GM has exhibited over the past couple of decades.

And, unfortunately, it's the guys and gals on the assembly lines at GM who pay the price for bad management by losing their jobs.

Hey, remember the Irish potato famine of 1845? Farmers had concentrated their efforts on growing "Aran Banner" potatoes, a large-sized variety. Problem was, this variety was highly susceptible to the blight (Phytophthora infestans), and once the infestation began, there went the potatoes. If the peasants had diversified their crops to include some smaller and blight-resistant varieties, they wouldn't have starved to death.

Those who don't learn from history....

Jan

 

Nevermind the fact that Toyota's truck sales tanked like everyone else's in 2005 during the crisis months. Nevermind the fact that during those same months Toyota still managed to increase their sales by selling more small compact cars like the Corolla, the Matrix etc...

Yes... HOW DARE TOYOTA SELL MORE SMALLER CARS THAT ARE MORE COMPELLING THAN GM OR FORD TO PICK UP THE SLACK FOR DIPPING TRUCK SALES.

Geez. It's not the Prius and the hybrid image that helped Toyota's bottom line in 2005. it was their diversity in lineup.

 

Yeh, I know this was dead, but, hey--it stopped before I had a chance to chime in...I ALWAYS talk to myself...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Nov 1 2005, 04:31 PM) [snapback]148816[/snapback]</div>

Let's see, and I quote: "...what is happening in trucks and suv's[sic] and the way it is happening."
So why are you bashing people who are here because of a CAR? I do not now nor have I ever owned a truck. I don't even like big cars. Go bash people on a TRUCK forum if your problem is with trucks, which it clearly is. People here keep saying "PRIUS PRIUS PRIUS" and you come back with "Toyota is evil because they are trying to compete for a portion of the marketplace by having the gall to build trucks and try to sell them to Americans." I DON'T HAVE A DAMN TRUCK. I DON'T WANT A DAMN TRUCK. IS THERE AN AMERICAN *****CAR***** that in any way is competetive with the Prius? Enlighten us, do.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Nov 1 2005, 05:48 PM) [snapback]148868[/snapback]</div>

Don't be silly. They're just loading those chips into all the Smart Keys...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Nov 2 2005, 10:17 AM) [snapback]149182[/snapback]</div>

Can somebody please enlighten all of us: What percentage of Toyota's market is cars SOLD TO INDIVIDUALS? What % other types of vehicles? What percentage of GM/FORD/(INSERT MANUFACTURER HERE) market is cars SOLD TO INDIVIDUALS (as opposed to fleets-so no, we don't get to count all the Crown Vic cop/government cars)? What % other types of vehicles? (2nd question because there seems to be some confusion in this thread between cars and SUVs--you can only compare apples with apples in any meaninful way--I will consider SUVs to be valid choices when they are held to the same emission & safety standards--minivans can do the same stuff, can't they?)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LaughingMan @ Nov 2 2005, 12:35 PM) [snapback]149344[/snapback]</div>

NO NO NO LM!!! TRUCKS are not bad...TOYOTA trucks are bad. Jeez, can't you get ANYTHING right? Malorn has not said GM trucks, or Ford trucks, or Chevy trucks are going to kill america--it is only those blasted furrin ones that are a threat to mom, apple pie, and my god-given right to guzzle all the damn fuel I want to, and to hell with you and your kids and grandkids. I got mine--you got no right to yours!