Featured Snow job about EV range in heat and cold

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Let's not forget that EVS and ICEVs both have a 12 volt battery that is not immune to the cold, and neither are going anywhere without it. But the one in the EV has an easier job, so should be able to start the car under conditions in which the ICEV one won't.
     
    #21 Trollbait, Feb 11, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    didn't ionic EV do away w/ the 12v? .... choosing to pull power from the lithium pack in stead? ( .... no attempt meant at smearing / exaggerating / or inferring one or the other failed to achieve the best balance - just a question - sheesh)
    .
     
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  3. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    Let's not forget cold weather math. Assuming say a 10% cold weather loss, and apply it to ICE as well as hybrids ...

    50 mpg in a prius hybrid - 10% = 45 mpg = -5 mpg = OMG, big loss of MPG!!!!
    16 mpg in a Tahoe - 10% = 14.4 mpg = -1.6 mpg = hardly any change at all, hybrids are a scam.

    Let's just ignore that 45 >>> 14.4. or 16. or 28. or 32.

    and yes, I've been told this several times as a reason why hybrids are no good in winter. I'm sure the same applies to BEVs.
     
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  4. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    My aim is eventually to have a 4WD hybrid SUV (hers) and a 4WD EV (mine) in the garage. Efficiency for 90% of the time and virtually unlimited range for the rest of the conditions/trips. But she values plushmobile quietness (I consider her Avalon to be a pig) and my challenge will be finding a car/SUV for her that has:
    • quietness (I have a db meter on my phone to test that)
    • reasonable acceleration
    • room and comfort for 5 ladies for a 60 mile trip
    • SUV height of seats
    • fits a NFL lineman or a NCAA guard in front
    • a user interface that is traditional in the extreme. She doesn't do techie at all.
    • reasonable greenness (not sure she cares, I do)
    • a price a cheapskate like me can swallow
    • safety nannies that don't require any user interaction see non techie above.
    • a local to me now dealer. And a wide enough dealer network that when we have to move (age and condition driven) service if needed will be easy.
    • Like to keep it around $50k.
    For her, when the right vehicle is identified and she confirms it, we are ready to buy. (Suggestions invited) That would free me up to buy "mine" then and it wouldn't have to meet those criteria.. But for now, I just went to 4 stops with a chock full v trunk of recycles and trash and Lidle and Walmart purchases so I have to have a SUV or wagon in the stable.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The hybrid did, but the Electric kept the 12 volt.
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it was an odd set up iirc, the 12v portion of the battery fastened in from underneath the car, and is not 'eliminated'.
    it is a li=on battery connected by cables that can be jump started from the hybrid battery by pressing a button on the dash, should it go dead.
     
    #26 bisco, Feb 11, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It is a 12 volt mounted in the traction pack.
    [​IMG]
    The North American market was the first to get it, but the car was released elsewhere first. Those cars got a traditional battery, without self jump starting, that is mounted underneath the car.

    Eliminating the lead acid battery saves around 25 pounds.
     
  8. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Also the PHEV kept the 12v.
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Yeah, they both have a Pb-acid one in the back. Cost might be why, but I'm thinking they wanted to use the hybrid's 12 volt battery space for more traction pack capacity.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Time will tell if it was worthwhile or not, but I admire the innovation
     
  11. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I turn that on its head with them and use cost per mile.
    50 mpg @ $2/gal = $0.04/mile
    45 mpg @ $2/gal = $0.044/mile
    16 mpg @ $2/gal = $0.125/mile
    14.8 mpg @ $2/gal = $0.139/mile

    So:
    at a loss of 10% in efficiency, the 50 mpg car costs an extra $0.40 per 100 miles.
    at a loss of 10% in efficiency, the 16 mpg car costs an extra $1.40 per 100 miles.
    If gas goes to $4/gal, that becomes and extra $0.80 per 100 miles and $2.80 per 100 miles respectively.
     
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  12. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    you have some typos in your numbers
     
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  13. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I fixed it for him. I assume it's $0.044.
     
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  14. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Good catch. Oops!!

    Thank you. You assume correctly. Makes me wonder now what I had there. Oh! Never mind. I see it in my notifications now. Thanks again. (y)
     
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  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    My practice is to use a spreadsheet to generate the table and use the following spreadsheet functions:
    • text(<cell>;"<pattern>") - the common patterns are: "0.0" - number with one decimal place; "0%" - percentage. There are others but people get anxious seeing scientific notation.
    • concatenate(<cell1>;"|";<cell2>;"|";<cell3>) - the "|" is the table field separator. Caution as "," is also a field separator so avoid them. BTW, you can put the "text()" function in a cell field.
    • use "table=head" and "/table" tags inside of "[...]" - these let you generate a table using the functions above to fill the table cells.
    Bob Wilson
     
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  16. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    A good practice. This was so simple I just typed it in a notepad as I did the calculations and then copied & pasted to the forum. I could have sworn I had all the zeros there. Apparently I didn't. <sigh>

    At any rate, the point is that when you use cost per mile, you remove the games we can play with statistics.
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i lose about 30% in winter without heat, so 40% with heat might be conservative. perhaps tell is more efficient though
     
  18. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    So when it is cold do you guys employ 'manual heat switching' where you turn the heat off at stoplights and such? I do that in my Prius v (wagon) and it helps a lot. Otherwise the engine seems like it is always running. Seems like that would also help in an EV as well...or any car for that matter but I like the fact that I can hear the engine go off when I turn off the heater. (y)
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't use heat at all, unless I'm on a trip long enough to need the engine.

    but the engine run time depends on the temp you set and how cold it is outside. i haven't had to switch it on/off to stop the engine, how many miles on your cars? might be a lot colder where you aretooc. average in boston is poly 20's and 30's.
     
  20. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Well we were in the middle of the 'polar vortex' a couple weeks ago...and have had quite a bit of weather in the 'well below zero' range. So yep, a lot colder. And I don't do any grill blocking either...and probably should I suppose. (y)
     
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