"Soldiers of Islam" bomb Record Store

eh, i'm tired of this. When you guys want to actually take the time to understand the oppositions argument, call me. until then, have fun thinking that all the left wants to do is succumb to the terrorists and hate America.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Mar 22 2007, 01:32 PM) [snapback]410233[/snapback]</div>

what type of wiretaps that we done do you define as illegal?

and,

What is your solution to this current problem?

 

Yeah this is exhausting and a bit embarrassing to see such blind hatred coming from fellow citizens. Are you guys actually reading the responses or you just skimming for key words and then plop those into a random pro/con sentence generators? Where did I say love all extremists? Where did I say, bow down to terrorists? You really need to take break and examine your own responses.

Racism, which was a strong part of the NAZI regime has NOT been wiped out or wiped from this planet.! Guess where the Nazi following has a strong resurgence? In formerly East German locations and surrounding eastern nations. Those are territories that were militarily ruled and regulated by a regime that is and was so far from the NAZI politics as one can imagine. Those areas were sanitized of any NSDAP sympathizers and anyone with a shaved head. Guess what, it didn't work. Those morons out there on the eastern front, have hoarded and worked on their misconstrued views for all those years while having been forcible suppressed.

I have met some of them, these guys are every bit as nuts as any extremist you can imagine. They raise their kids that way for crying out loud. Do I say coddle them and give them flower and hug? Heck no, I say spend money on reigning them in (yes that means force and incarceration) and at the same time spend the same amount of money on re-educating their offspring to see that they are blindly submitting to a hatred that is unbecoming to a civil society.

You can't bomb out racism and fanaticism, you have to educated it out if you want a long term solution. Now don't go off into Lala land and write "oh I see you want to sing them songs and hold hands and forgive them". Read my words and see my intend for a permanent solution that does NOT involve killing someone in order to convert them or make others submit to my point of view. Money and human resources spent on suppressing others are far better spend on educating those who are vulnerable and impressionable to freakishly extreme points of view.

Slavery is not an ideology, it is an abhorrent means to support the status quo of an ideology. Nazism, fascism and their punk kid offspring: religious fanaticism as it is currently expressed in some countries around our lovely planet, are not dead, they are alive and doing (sadly) well.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Mar 22 2007, 01:52 PM) [snapback]410251[/snapback]</div>

be tired of it - how else do you define it? What is your solution to Islamoterrorism - a problem that has been around for 1,000 years - making nice to them for several hundred years did not work, what makes you think it will work now? And you would allow iran to go nuclear????? This is why we think people with your thoughts about this issue want us to succumb to terror - what were we doing before WTC I in 1993? How about 9/11?

Tell me, how do you see this thing ending peacefully so we do not have to worry about our childrens future?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lywyllyn @ Mar 22 2007, 02:35 PM) [snapback]410298[/snapback]</div>

educate rascism out - tell me, how have we done doing that in germany for the past 50 years? WAKE UP. There will always be a degree of hatred and terror - the goal is to keep it to as low a level as possible - to minimize your downside risk of death and mass destruction. IT DOES INVOLVING KILLING PEOPLE AT TIMES - WAKE UP - IF WE KILLED HITLER IN 1938 HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD BE ALIVE TODAY? IF WE PROVE TO THE BAD GUYS THAT IF THEY WANT TO LIVE TO KILL OTHERS THAT THEY WILL BE OFFED, IT MIGHT PREVENT THE NEXT GUY FROM DOING THE SAME. IT IS NOT NOT NOT NOT OK TO LET HITLER LIKE PEOPLE GET THEIR HANDS ON NUKES - CAN YOU AGREE WITH THIS SIMPLE SIMPLE STATEMENT? AND I DEFINE HITLER LIKE PEOPLE AS BEING THIS NUTJOB ARHMEDAJAID IN IRAN - HE IS HITLER LIKE - I I I I DO NOT NOT NOT WANT HIM TO HAVE A NUKE AND WOULD BE WILLING TO PREVENT HIM AT ALL COSTS FROM DOING SO.

YOU CANNOT RE-EDUCATE A RELIGION THAT HAS AS ITS BASIC TENNET THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING USED AS AN INSTRUMENT OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION - UNLESS OF COURSE YOU WANT TO RE-WRITE THE KORAN.

AND BESIDES - HOW MUCH OF YOUR RESOURCES THAT YOU WANT TO RE-EDUCATE AND POSSIBLY DEFEND OUR COUNTRY ARE YOU GOING TO DIVERT TO gw?

 

LOL

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Mar 22 2007, 03:14 PM) [snapback]410327[/snapback]</div>

?

 

eagle, sorry I haven't jumped in to support you. I agree with your positions, and thank you for keeping up the good fight. It's just not worth it to me anymore, I guess, because no good discussions come from either of these twos' baiting/flaming. There are no discussions with these two (as I've found on other posts, as well), there are no new ideas in them, no questioning, no wondering, no offering up of legitimate solutions to any issue they deem as against their own personal viewpoint, etc. They are, in essence, Fundamentalists themselves, with a very strict, very narrow world view, like most Fundamentalists.

I've learned a valuable lesson in the past three weeks on this board. Fundamentalists, be it Fundamental Christians or Fundamental Muslims or Fundamental Hatemongers, have no reason. I've tried to determine why they are lacking in that area, but found it impossible.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 22 2007, 03:26 PM) [snapback]410337[/snapback]</div>

The problem is that these guys live in areas of the US that are "pro-terror" - I mean they send to Congress representatives that want to retreat from Iraq, they want to play nice, they want to have the UN care for US interests - EXACTLY THE SAME WANTS AND NEEDS OF OUR ENEMIES - they do not live under the threat I live under every day - let them live or work or both here with me in Gotham. They flap their lips, think their silly constructs (notice how NONE of them have offered a solution to this problem except RE-educating them -jeeeez) and they have no worries - they sleep and live in "pro-terror" land. Who would OBL vote for - O. hussien Barrak or Guiliani? A dem or repub?

 

Yeah LC, i've gotten a little tired of it... each new thread i see a chance, a hope, to actually have a serious, grown up discussion/debate on a topic, only to be disappointed.

Berman, since you've started the personal attacks again, why don't we skip ahead a few posts to help kill this faster? I see good where there is evil. I hate America. I want to hold hands and sing songs with Iran as they nuke Israel. I want a repeat of 9/11... Have i left anything out?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 22 2007, 02:31 PM) [snapback]410341[/snapback]</div>

Oh, where do I start with this one? How about here. If you live in NYC and you don't live in the 13th Congressional District, then your friends an neighbors are "pro-terror" as well.

Now, if you don't live in the city, then you must live in part of Nassau County. They sent a Republican, also. The other 4 NY Republican representatives come from a little too far away to make a commute to the city feasible. Otherwise, as I said before, your friends and neighbors are "pro-terror".

Heck, at least 1/2 of the Districts in NJ that have large numbers of commuters to NYC sent what you call "pro-terror" representatives.

And aren't you from the same state that sent 2 Democrats to the Senate?

Now, what were you saying again about what people who live and work in areas that are under threat? Looks to me like most of them disagree with you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 22 2007, 01:52 PM) [snapback]410315[/snapback]</div>

First: I must congratulate you on yelling your arguments, that really makes you so much more credible.

Second: If Hitler would have been assassinated, someone else would taken his place. lets see: Göring, Göbbels, Rippentrop, Frick, Himmler to name a few. But I make room that if Hitler would have been assassinated (and dang that f'er deserved it too) Germany may have changed some of its policies. However Stalin would have probably steam rolled Europe entirely and instead of an eastern block we would have an eastern continent. Mussolini would have taken is illusions of grandeur and started another roman empire.... all speculation now.

Third: You are once again not reading my post, I honestly think you cannot read it correctly. Nowhere did I say that Iran's government is the poster child of misunderstood peace and prosperity, that is your twisted interpretation.

I think I figured out the problem. You see, an exchange of ideas is usually on the basis of respect for both parties presenting a point of view. No one really expects to win the argument outright and thus makes room for compromise on positions or simply accept that (usually) both parties have good intentions and the other cannot be moved. Seeing and understanding someone else's point of view is not the same as submitting to their opinion and giving up ones own. Now, I would say that I am pretty modest in my views on the war etc. I support the troops, I see and acknowledge extremism on both sides of the fence. I see Iraq and Iran as serious challenge for humankind and it must be solved. I strive for a solution that is sustainable for all humankind. However you are not satisfied with that, you want my utter and total submission that your way is right and that my way is wrong.

Third the seconde: In my example about the Nazis in eastern Germany, (you know, the one you didn't read) I explicitly stated that extremists must be reigned be it force and/or incarceration. So yes such a conflict does involved killing people. I don't have to be happy about it, but I acknowledge that this seems to be the way things must progress. Just thought I would clarify that point.

Fourth: "you cannot re-educate a religion that has as its basic tennent the possibility of being used as an instrument of death…."
Shame on you, didn't you just state that you have Muslim partners, friends and colleagues? Since you call them Muslims and they themselves are probably proud to be Muslim, do they practice that clause in the Qur'an? I am going to guess that they don't because they are educated and learned in worldly affairs. Heck I am guessing they can actually live with that cognitive dissonance, as they have the free will and choice to make the decision to *not* use that clause as an means to win an argument. Your friends are most likely not children of extremists, but rather children of educated and open minded parents who are comfortable in *their* practice and adherence to the Qur'an

Fifth: The Bible does not condemn slavery. The Old Testament is full of slave stories and slave laws. The New Testament also treats slavery as part of every day life. Paul says for slaves to obey their masters and for masters to treat their slaves well. Nowhere in the Bible is slavery pronounced evil, sinful, immoral, or a ‘crime against humanity.’ Does that mean we have slavery in the US these days? No, we choose to be educated and forthright about something so cruel, that we don't have consult the bible everytime we are confronted with a dilemma that has an obvious right or wrong choice. I give Muslims the same credit to adopt modern life. ..once again I am not talking about extremists here, but that is what you think anyways.

Btw, have you read the Qur'an? I would guess no. Have you read the bible? I am guessing no here as well.
Quite shocking how someone so embittered can ridicule a major religious text down to 20 pages without truly knowing what it says. I don't claim to know what it says, I have read other opinions claiming a wide range of things. Not until I have read the Qur'an will a pretend to know its contend or intend. That's just me, though. YMMV


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Mar 22 2007, 02:47 PM) [snapback]410354[/snapback]</div>

Yes, you want a ban on white picked fences, apple pie and cancel Thanks Giving in order to save the turkeys!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lywyllyn @ Mar 22 2007, 04:28 PM) [snapback]410390[/snapback]</div>

So what is your solution?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 22 2007, 03:29 PM) [snapback]410392[/snapback]</div>

Phew thank you for taking the high road.

Honestly ... I don't know what would work. I don't know what will make one part of country listen to another part. I was hoping to get some constructive input here. I know that you feel that military force is kind of like pushing the reset button. I agree, I feel that that is sometimes the best way to start again. However, the same programs will run amok again, if you don't work on a basic updates. (okay enough with the software analogies )

I am simply stating that just counter killing and elimination are probably not the best way to implement a sustainable and permanent change in attitude.

Lets say the military operation succeeds in getting all the nutters of the street. Then what would you do? I really would like to know your opinion, speculation, suggestions. Heck this all just vapor ware here is it not? Our politicians don't take a peak in here to see how this affecting the country at large. What do your Muslim friends say? They have got be as scared as the rest of us.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 22 2007, 03:31 PM) [snapback]410341[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Mar 22 2007, 04:05 PM) [snapback]410373[/snapback]</div>

He didn't say that he lives in NYC. He lives in Gotham City; you know, where Batman and the Joker live?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Mar 22 2007, 04:29 PM) [snapback]410436[/snapback]</div>

or actually read what was posted here vs what conservopedia says about liberals. I am holding out for md to engage in a good discussion.