Sonic spark plugs???

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by Wiyosaya, May 3, 2007.

  1. Wiyosaya

    Wiyosaya Member

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    Anyone out there try these yet?

    I'm wondering if they are bogus, or if they would help in a Prius. Since they are not that expensive, it might be worth a try...
     
  2. mikepaul

    mikepaul Senior Member

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    "They look like normal spark plugs, but they have a powerful ultrasound generator in the tip."


    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  3. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Active Member

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    Oh man! Forgive me for posting an animation here, but this little diagram was just too much:

    [​IMG]

    :lol: :lol:

    So. . . yeah. I'd throw my vote in with the "bogus" category, Wiyosaya.
     
  4. lenjack

    lenjack Active Member

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    Too funny! Some idiot will try it.

    Too funny! Some idiot will try it.
     
  5. c4

    c4 Active Member

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    Read the patent.. They take a regular spark plug and drill a hole into the electrode that's supposed to form a "resonant cavity".. This is the real reason that they can't use platinum tipped plugs.. I used to play a lot with spark gap devices and cavities, etc which will alter the sound that the spark makes (softer or louder), but they do not comprise an "ultrasonic generator", and neither will a louder spark result in any fuel economy benefits.. The entire reason that people are seeing fuel economy gains is that their original plugs were probably several years old and fouled, so replacing them with new ones (of any type and brand) would have definitely improved performance.. Just because something is issued a patent doesn't mean that it actually works- in fact fuel economy is *NOT* one of the claims of the patent.. The patent claims only describe a spark plug with a hole in the electrode and nothing is claimed about the benefits of such a construction (which would have had to be proved)..
     
  6. tnthub

    tnthub Member

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    Sounds pretty bogus to me. On a positive note however, at least the common problem of the "pucks" falling off won't be happening...
     
  7. theothergoose

    theothergoose New Member

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    Agreed - bogus. I've worked as an engineer for one of the major spark plug mfg's for some time. We always get a good laugh out of these kinds of items. Hope this helps... :)
     
  8. woodye

    woodye New Member

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    Gents and Ladies, I also wonder why this is discussed on a Prius site: but, the plugs seem to work. My son tried some and improved mileage and power in an old Nissan truck. I tried a set on a 98 tahoe, saw some improvement so put a set in a 484 motor home, 1999 with computer, and a 1999 Saab Turbo.

    To date, with crude but fairly carefull monitoring of fuel burn over a couple of months, all the vehicles mileage improved 9 to 10%. Low end torgue seems to be better and my motor home as a low rpm big V-8 has noticably more power. I live in Colorado, so that is a help.

    Since the owner is near me, I've been to his shop and talked to him at length. Neat 84 year old with a background with Martin Marrietta.

    After several thousand miles on the Saab, the mileage is holding and the plugs are very clean.

    Woodye
     
  9. Bobwho

    Bobwho New Member

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    The previous post makes me wonder it the person is not a shill for the company?

    One person with one anecdotal claim is not a scientific proof of improvement.

    IMO the jury is still out.

    Graphs of mileage for the life of the vehicle(s) along with data on what things were done to and with the vehicles is the only way to figure what is going on.
     
  10. ZC1

    ZC1 Junior Prius Owner

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    Oh my gosh, these are the best plugs EVER !!!

    You know me...! ZC1 ! I would never steer you wrong.

    They're even endorsed by our new Woodye, a regular good guy in Colorado. Don't let his one post (as in number 1) scare you off, Oh...no, these plugs give powerful results, they literally scrub your engine while they work....
    But that's not ALL....
    If you order now, I'll include a set of non-stick pans...a shoehorn...a used motor oil bottle (use it as a funnel, smart, eh?)....Blah. blah...blah...

    (If anyone buys these things, well ...you deserve it..)

    ZC1
     
  11. Mike Wofsey

    Mike Wofsey New Member

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    Apologies on the lateness of the reply to this post, but I just found this when I was looking for something else.

    I made that animation, and my dad is the inventor and manufacturer of those spark plugs. I'm happy to explain any of the technical details to anyone who is interested. The ultrasonic spark plugs do work, they have been tested and confirmed repeatedly in dynos and test stands. Several years ago we were in contention to supply these plugs to Toyota, they tested them there and got the claimed performance boost, but we couldn't get the price down low enough for them to include them in their cars.

    I'm not an engine expert, but my dad is, I can get the auto-type questions to him. But if you have physics-type question, then I'm happy to respond, I'm a physicist and all of this is directly in my area of research.

    Specifically, in regards to the animation, when fuel is sprayed in from the injector, it's a common misconception that the fuel is "atomized". It definitely is not. The intermolecular forces are far too strong for that, the droplets are around the 1 micrometer to 25 micrometer domain, depending on the efficiency and power of the injector. The ultrasound from our plugs is formed when the spark jumps the gap from electrode to ground, and forces some of the air-fuel mixture through the whistle tip, due to the acoustic pressure front of the spark.

    The second misconception is that combustion happens nearly instantaneously in the cylinder. In fact there is a characteristic time, depending on compression, turbulence and temperature that requires the combustion front to spread from the tip of the plug to the voluem of air-fuel mixture. The acoustic pressure front from the ultrasound moves at least an order of magnitude faster than the combustion front. When the ultrasound makes contact with the fuel droplets, it vibrates them sufficiently to change the average aerodynamic diameter of the droplets, reducing the mean aerodynamic diameter below the 1 micrometer domain into the high-hundreds of nanometers domain. We have measured this. Though the total volume of fuel remains the same, the total surface area of the droplets increases, because there are more droplets of smaller surface area. This increases the reaction coefficient and creates a higher burn efficiency, within the same time-temperature-turbulence regime.

    I get the point of this post, it's good to be skeptical, but the ultrasonic spark plug is not a scam, it's been tested and used by thousands of users for over twenty-five years. The reason they are not manufactured any longer is mostly because my dad is a WWII veteran, 93 years, old, and I don't have the machining expertise to make them anymore. But his spark plug shop and machines are all still there, if we can find someone to start making them again.
     
  12. Sandollars

    Sandollars Prius Maven

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    Pure unadulterated bunk...
     
  13. Mike Wofsey

    Mike Wofsey New Member

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    I'm happy to discuss it with you if you like.

    If you're sure of your opinion, then you must have some kind of technical knowledge to back it up, right?
     
  14. Mike Wofsey

    Mike Wofsey New Member

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    "Shill for the company"?

    The "company" is my dad, who was the only employee for most of the time, had someone help him part time on occasion. He sold the plugs relatively cheap and was never much of a marketing guy, he is an engineer and a machinist. Most of the time he made just enough money to keep the company running, definitely not enough to keep an army of "shills" employed.

    Yeah, I get why people are skeptical, I'm a huge skeptic of most things too. But there are real people behind certain things, and there are genuine improvements to some things.

    You ask about "scientific proof of improvement"? Yeah, I did too. We've had several engine-mount dyno tests done, the results of which are on the website. I've done aerosol analysis with the ultrasound emitter for particle characterization of number density and mass density, across a range of sizes, inertial impaction, cyclonic separation, light scattering and Lorentz force ion mobilization. My old man was never too fond of me doing all these tests, he didn't see the value in it, even though he spent a large chunk of his career doing similar work at Martin Marietta. He was more interested in the results with his customers. He was proud of those spark plugs, but he was also proud of his customer's satisfaction and return purchases.
     
  15. Mike Wofsey

    Mike Wofsey New Member

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    You were an engineer at a major spark plug manufacturer? Which one? Have you followed this modification specifically?

    I've followed every major development in spark plugs in the last thirty-some years, I've tested many of them, some were good, a few were bad (like the smooth ceramic that allowed arcing to the engine block, or plugs that had too thick ground electrodes and retained too much heat) and most didn't do much more than a regular plug.

    But if you genuinely know spark plugs, then I'm interested in discussing this with you.
     
  16. David Eshkol

    David Eshkol New Member

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    Hi Mike Wofsey,

    I read the nay sayers & skeptics on the sonic spark plugs thread, its surprising you kept quiet from 2007 until 2017, man, a lot of technological advances have taken place since, i would like to ask if your dads sonic spark plugs still work on today's automobiles? are you guys still selling them, can you please connect with me on a private line on my whats app number +91 99 497 497 22. Alternatively send me your contact whats app number. Thanks.

    David Eshkol.
     
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