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Spark Plug pictures after 120,631 miles

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by exstudent, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Am I mistaken to believe, based on the pictures below, that the spark plugs could go a little bit longer than 120,000 miles? #1.JPG #2.JPG #3.JPG #4.JPG
     
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  2. Fore

    Fore Don't look back!

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    Still looks good to me. In fact I would wire brush them and put them back. I'm all about saving money!
     
  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The used plugs look pretty good. However the answer to your question would be based upon the spark plug gap.

    The correct gap is 1.0 to 1.1 mm. If the gap is 1.2 mm or more, the plugs should be replaced. Do not adjust the gap of a used iridium spark plug.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    nice pics!(y) how much are 4 plugs?
     
  5. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    Why is that?
     
  6. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Yeah those plugs are in amazingly good condition given the number of miles. I recently changed mine for the first time at 200,000 km (124000 miles) and they looked very similar to yours. Very little wear. (y)
     
  7. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    There is so little wear on those plugs its unbelievable. I personally believe you could clean them up and be good for another 50-100k miles but others have disputed me on that.

    The old ones are made in Japan so they're likely better lol.
     
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  8. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Denso SK16R11, approved Iridium spark plug for our Gen 2 Prius was $8.01 each + CA sales tax, on Amazon. No shipping, b/c I'm a Prime member. Amazon was the cheapest, and I looked everywhere (autozone, oriley, various genuine Toyota parts websites, ...).
     
  9. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    My belief is that the ground electrode of a used spark plug will become brittle over time, as it is exposed to repeated heat/cool cycles. A plug that has logged 120K miles may have experienced 3,000 or more heat/cool cycles - if you drive 40 miles per trip. Following is text from the Toyota repair manual:

    1. INSPECT SPARK PLUG
    NOTICE:
     Do not clean the spark plug with a wire brush.

     Do not adjust the gap of the used spark plug.

    (a) Clean the spark plug.

    (1) Using a spark plug cleaner, clean the spark plug.

    Air Pressure Duration
    588 kPa (6.0 kgf/cm2, 85 psi) 20 second or shorter

    HINT:

     If the electrode is wet, dry it first, then clean it with a spark
    plug cleaner.

     If the spark plug is wet with oil, remove the oil with gasoline
    before using a spark plug cleaner.

    (b) Check the appearance.

    (1) Check that the threads or insulator of the spark plug

    are not damaged.


    Recommended spark plug:

    Supplier Type

    DENSO SK16R11

    NGK IFR5A11

    (c) Inspect the gap.

    (1) Using a spark plug gap gauge, measure the gap of
    the spark plug.

    Standard: 1.0 to 1.1 mm (0.039 to 0.043 in.)
    Maximum: 1.2 mm (0.047 in.)

    If the gap is greater than maximum, replace the spark plug.
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i guess there are two ways to think about it: if you put the plugs back in, you have to inspect them again when? if you replace them, you're good for another 120k.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah, I'd toothbrush them with carb cleaner. Actually quite effective. Some plugs don't take kindly to wire brushing, or sand blast, and I think the long-life plugs are in this category.

    Still, after digging down to those, and with new spark plugs on hand, c'mon...
     
  12. Feri

    Feri Active Member

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    I suspect the gap is too large.
     
  13. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    I'm sure it could go a bit longer. But, when the weakened ground electrode (as clearly visible in the image) or porcelain isolator breaks off, the engine will go kaput. Why risk it? Spark plugs are cheap.
     
  14. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Here's a zoomed in view of OPs last photo. The green line is cut and pasted, so the same length on each plug. The gap of the old plug still looks fine.

    plugs gap.jpg

    Also, there's still loads of wear remaining on that ground electrode. I suspect that these plugs could run another 120,000 miles and have nothing fall apart. Still I agree with Jacek though, with the relatively low cost of a new set of plugs there's no point in risking it.
     
  15. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I don't think it is asking too much to spend $40 on four iridium spark plugs every 120K miles. The idea is to replace the plugs before the engine starts to experience misfiring, after all. And, note that the engine ECU will log a misfire DTC only when a plug has a 25% misfire rate or greater.

    In the not so distant past, it was customary to replace regular spark plugs at 12K mile intervals, and later, platinum plugs at 30K or 60K mile intervals...
     
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  16. 00-00

    00-00 Member

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    And in the past, I used this spark plug cleaner/tester quite often. You hook up compressed air and plugged into 110v.
    You first clean the plug with the compressed air/sand mix. Then move the plug from cleaning chamber into the screw-in test chamber, push on a plug wire, push test to produce a spark, watch the arcing of the spark on the electrodes via a mirror, and increase the air pressure (as would happen in the combustion cylinder) until the plug starts to misfire. Some plugs misfired at an unacceptable low pressure level.
     

    Attached Files:

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  17. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Use of such a cleaner is still acceptable per the Toyota repair manual, see my post #9 above which shows the air compressor pressure spec of 85 psi, 20 seconds run time.
     
  18. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I'd agree with that logic. If you are at the point where you've already purchased replacement and removed the old plugs, then I think your "all in" for replacement.

    I know many Prius owners are about conservation and getting the most out of a resource, but even if the old spark plugs looked great, which they do, I'd be hard pressed to re-install plugs with 120,000+ miles on them. I'd put the brand new plugs in with 0 miles on them, and consider it a preemptive action, avoiding future deterioration.
     
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  19. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Thanks for all the feedback. Lots of good info:
    • Don't adjust the electrode on a used spark plug according to Toyota.
    • Agree w/ everyone that plugs could have gone a bit longer, but wouldn't be saving that much money give cost of plugs ($34.92) amortized over 120k miles or longer.

    I discovered two things:
    1. The gap of the used plugs was still in spec. Using a craftsman 6 leaf spark plug feeler gauge, the 1.02mm spark plug feeler gauge cleared the gap. The 1.14mm gauge did not.
    2. I could have gone to 150,000 miles before changing the spark plugs. Didn't realize California, New York, Massachusetts, Maine, and Vermont, consider the Prius to be a PZEV (Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle), and 150k mile is the spark plug interval change for PZEV. This is listed in the 2007 Prius Scheduled Maintenance guide Passport that came with the car. I'm guessing if these 5 states could go to 150k mile, I'm sure every Prius in the US could go to 150k mile? Wish I had known this, as I'm curious what 150k mile spark plug look like.
     
  20. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Well, the question is whether the 120K mile or 150K mile change interval is correct from an engineering perspective. According to the Denso website, their long-life original equipment iridium spark plugs have a 120K mile service life. See the second paragraph of following citation:

    How Long Do Iridium Plugs Last?


    The California PZEV requirement is based upon legislation. As you know, there is no difference in the iridium spark plugs installed in cars shipped to California and CARB states, vs. non-CARB states.

    I think it is likely that Toyota accepted the requirement and figured that some % of those cars will log misfires from 120K miles to 150K miles, and Toyota will accept the associated warranty expense.

    Suppose 30% of the shipments are to CARB states and 10% of those cars will actually log more than 120K miles during the warranty time duration. Say 30% of those cars log misfires sufficient to set a DTC. That is a pretty small percentage overall: less than 1% of total US shipments.

    However, as an owner interested in performing timely preventive maintenance, I think it is very appropriate to change the plugs at 120K miles. So by not making the plugs last until 150K miles, you lost $10 in savings...