Spiral Cable Replaced, Now Brake ! ABS and VSC Lights On!

That's an interesting problem! Have you looked up what those six blink codes mean? We've got different generations so I wouldn't trust what my service manual says about them, but if you could do that much homework from your own manual year (over at techinfo.toyota.com, $15 for two days, download whatever looks useful) and post what they refer to, we might be able to spot a pattern or explanation.

Cheers,
-Chap

 

I wouldn't decide to ignore them quite so quickly. I know that in Hollywood there's this trope where computers go "haywire" and start spewing meaningless gibberish whenever the storyline needs them to, but in real life computers have been my livelihood a darned long time now, including several years around the kind of hardened, dedicated purpose embedded controllers like what's in your car, and I think the times I've seen them go Hollywood "haywire" you could count on the fingers of one elbow. (Not that you can't see some complex behavior that looks haywire right up until you find the root cause, but that's another story.) Much more likely, if there's a computer that's been programmed to report certain code numbers when certain sensed conditions exist, and it's showing six of those code numbers (blinking them out precisely the way it is programmed to, which is some evidence against "haywire" right there), probably the conditions that trigger those codes are being sensed. The exact conditions to trigger each code are part of what you will find in your service manual if you look, and having six of them at once can even turn out to be a kind of a blessing—because by the time you have narrowed the possible causes to what those various trigger conditions have in common, you might be very close to finding your problem before you even get out of the chair.

No, I don't work for Toyota, though it seems like a person could do worse. I do fairly often encourage Prius owners on PriusChat to obtain their own manuals specific to their model year, though, and I've never thought the $15 Toyota asks for the subscription is too shocking next to the value of a multi-thousand-dollar car that you want to keep in good condition.

Now, I should be clear that there is no PriusChat rule that says you can't ask here if you haven't looked in your manual first, or anything like that. We're a pretty friendly bunch and will usually offer what we can in any case. By the same token, sometimes you might just have a better PriusChat experience if you do a little more homework in advance, just because it helps the rest of us be more helpful. If you think about it, by just posting some code numbers without including what your manual says about them, you sort of limit how many PriusChat members can respond with useful help:

• Those of us driving a different generation (like me) will be limited in how specific we can get, because even though I do have the manuals for my car, I can't be sure some details haven't changed.

So if your question stays around long enough, you might eventually get more specific suggestions from either:

• Someone who has the same generation / preferably model year as you, and has the manuals, and has them nearby when browsing PriusChat and has time to look up your codes in them, or
• Someone who has actually memorized the blink codes for your generation and model Prius, and can pop off what they mean without having to get up from the keyboard. (But I haven't seen many PriusChat members like that; I think at some point we all figured out that knowing π to 250 decimal places didn't get us any more nookie than people who just remembered it was roughly 3, and the appeal of memorizing obscure technical info when it can just be looked up started to fade some.)

As soon as you get either of those two kinds of answer, you'll probably be in a good way to solve your problem, but by experience, your question might be open for a few days or more before the right person with that kind of time available happens to see it. And before that happens, you will probably also get

• Several responses from people trying to be helpful with no more information than you have yourself

and that might steer you down a couple blind alleys before you get where you want to be. So that's why I tend to encourage having your own manuals for your own car ... a lot of the time, you will answer your own questions yourself in a lot less time than it takes to wait for replies to trickle in on PriusChat, and even when you don't, you'll ask better questions, and get better answers faster.

Cheers,
-Chap

 

The only way to find out is the mechanics scenario of 'cause and effect' I call it. You would have to reinstall the old cable and see it becomes what it was before installing the replacement. If it becomes what was the state before then you can surmise that the new replacement is not the same value as the original. Even if it was a NEW part - they are not to be trusted as the ONLY trust is one from a car which had the part and was removed with no issues and codes. Unless you use a DVOM to check out the circuits from the OLD minus the inoperate cruise values they can be compared to the NEW part for reference. This is where a reference manual can tell you the values the ECM or module will accept to operate or execute the operation demanded. It's a very frustrating thing as a seemingly slam dunk turns into a PITA.

 

The trouble is, the part is not the only variable in this picture. Any time you have a somewhat invasive procedure you have to go through to replace something, there is always a chance something is perturbed by your activity. Repeat the invasive procedure again to put the old part back, and you are not necessarily back to point A—or even a point you could get back to point B from.

At the moment, the OP does have codes from the computer. I would definitely start by looking those up, and the conditions that trigger them, and reason about those in a comfy warm chair to see if any common element jumps out that might have been affected by the work on the column ... because that is totally non-invasive (and also warm and comfy), and even if it doesn't lead to a solution, it won't have moved the goalposts.

-Chap

 

Nope totally disagree with that notion. If you put things back to their original connection and values it is always the true test of two points.
Did the reinstall make the car go back in the whole state as it was originally or when installed did the reinstall change things because of some physical action? Now when reinstalling the parameters of the ECM have to change back or erased to their original values ELSE the values remain and if the reinstall was or made which corrected the problem the user is still looking at the error codes but because their were no drive cycles the codes still remain. That is if the codes are the type which erase themselves upon startup. Each car is different on the how it is accomplished ofcourse. But the deal is UNLESS this old part is not installed you cannot geta hint of the 'cause and effect" scenario and understand what made a difference. With no reference to Ohm values and operational elements this is ALL you have. Once you get a manual and get to use the troubleshoot tree then you got something but until then the question always remains when a supposedly new part is introduced and new errors come up...you have to think as to what was the difference in the old and this new? Thats where your DVOM comes in handy to check to see the differences. Diagnostics is all about reasoning procedure especially if you do not have all the material to fix it. In this case with no reference the logical tree is to find out if the part is different or the install had changed something from the original

 

That's the great big if, and you're assuming that you can, which is true sometimes, but often not true at the end of not-one-but-two involved procedures affecting possibly marginal parts, even on nearby components you're not thinking of, but knocking with your hand or tools anyway, electrical contacts that may have oxidized in such a way that after even slight motion their conductivity has changed, etc. You think you have round-tripped from condition A to B and back to A, but because of unknown course deviations both ways, you may now be at C, and you still haven't solved the problem until you have figured out how far that is from A. It doesn't happen every time, but often enough to be worth cranking into your diagnostic strategy. When it does happen, your own certainty that you must be back at A can be your biggest obstacle to finding out where you are really.

Not that you don't sometimes have to go that route. You may have no choice after you've exhausted other diagnostic avenues that aren't invasive and don't risk changing the situation further while you're trying to figure it out. But the OP hasn't exhausted the other avenues yet.

-Chap

 

I don't know if you have had much experience with cars but this is just the way it is done. It is not evasive or invasive...in any way. These are just machines and are pretty stupid in reality. They are programmed and very predictable. In fact you can cause errors to see if the ECM itself can detect faults..which leads to either wiring or the ECM itself is defective. The diagnostic techgnician (which I am) has to follow logic and cause and effect to detect the know effects as well as the expected affects in any repair. You can always go back to any state if you know how to induce them on ANY CAR! You just have to know which wires to pull or put which values (out of spec) to.
I think your complicated things way over what the problem is. Its just a machine and doesn't think outside of its program parameters.
In a sense the programming is totally 'cause and effect' of values accepted and rejected. The strategy for the technician is also use those actionable modes in the ECM to his/her advantage. Thats what the scanner is all about as well as the DVOM.

 

Say thats the deal as to WHY one cable works as original and the replacement has invoked more codes than the original.
I would say that the fautr is not n the cable but the steering system instead. If that cable (original) indicates that the steering is off I would look into that system only. Putting in the NEW cable and getting other errors tells me its defective or the wrong cable. To check tou would have to check each circuit and its corresponding values with the old part. Tedious but its thats the only way to know.
As far as relays - its pretty simple - easiest way is to swap out to a corresponding one and test it. Lets say its a head lite relay - pull it out and swap with another. As long as they are the same type you can test their operation that way.

IIs that a reference to me?

 

The service manual volumes have: Diagnostics starting in volume 1 (my generation has only two volumes and diags are only volume 1, yours might have more), and the volume(s) after that have actual service procedures (for things you've already diagnosed using the procedures you find earlier).

The biggest part of the Diagnostics volume(s) will be the DI section, look at the front of that section for contents, find the page where brakes start. (Look under ABS or skid control if it's not under brakes.) Look near the front of that section for codes. It will probably start with the 5-character OBD-II style codes, which you would see with a proper reader. Then you'll see a section heading "If not using Toyota tester:" or words to that effect, and it will have the blink codes. Probably also a table that crosses the two-digit blink codes with the equivalent 5-character DTCs, but there tend to be fewer blink codes so you may find one blink code crosses to more than one DTC.

The really important part of that table will be the page numbers next to the codes. Those send you to the pages with the diagnostic workup for each code you've got. Those pages will describe exactly what the computer looks at when deciding to trigger that code. If you've got several codes, you can look at those several descriptions and start looking for overlap and thinking "now, what might I have done that could have that effect?".

Dion, I don't doubt that you're a technician or that you have some experience with cars, but I wonder how much of that has been with oldish cars where multiple things may be marginal and your attempts to go back to a prior state affect other things in ways you don't foresee. I won't harp on that because if you haven't yet had the pleasure of developing that part of your skill set, you can certainly look forward to it.

-Chap

 

I have 40 years experience in the auto trade. Thats with EV vehicles, Bus, commercial equipment and diesel. I am a fleet mechanic by trade. AS for older cvars...I can work on them blind folded easily...
What do you do for a living? Are you on IATN member?

 

This summer, I put a used DICE audio adapter in my previously flawless 05. Red Triangle of Death went on briefly, but turned off after restarts. Used it for a week, but with very low (not daily) use, it drained the year old battery, twice. So I decided to use it only for long trips. Six months later, I hooked up the DICE for a 1700 mile road trip. Half way home, the RTD (along with the ABS/VCS lights) appeared after a 10 minute visit to a rest stop. Everything drove fine. Sounded fine. Pulled over and restarted car several times--ABS/VSC lights went off but RTD stayed on. I disconnected the DICE. Torque and DashCommand logged no errors. Drove it for another hour or so. Stopped again to fill gas (3 pips left). Car started without any lights. All has been perfect since. Read EVERYTHING about the RTD here and I'm pretty confident in saying the the Prius electrical is sensitive and the RTD can mean just about anything and nothing. Doctor it hurts when I do this. Well don't do that! Anyone want to buy a DICE cheeeeeeeep?!?

 

I think it is more likely that you ran into the "DICE wireharness bridges the AVC-LAN to the Eject button" issue, and not that you have proven the Prius computers light the warning triangle for random reasons.

The DICE wireharness issue I found when I installed mine 7-ish years ago in a Gen 1, so my writeup on the issue (edit: or try this link) is Gen 1-specific. On Gen 1, the circuit that one leg of the AVC-LAN gets incorrectly shorted to in the DICE harness happens to be the cassette eject line. I can't say for sure it's the same circuit in Gen 2, but there were definitely also Gen 2 owners reporting the symptoms back then, just as you are now (which would tend to be the same no matter what other random circuit you happen to short one side of the AVC-LAN to). So, check my write-up above, and check in your 2005 wiring diagram manual to see if there is also some other non-AVC-LAN circuit on pin 11 for you too; quite possibly the same fix will work for you. Then you'll be able to keep the DICE, and you won't think the RTD comes on for random reasons.

But let's try to keep this thread on topic for PriusCam.

-Chap

edit: weird, somehow overnight the thread linked above got merged from two posts into one, so now the links to the second post that I've made in other PriusChat threads over seven years are all dead and won't help people....

 

Yes, the /xx in those code tables gives you the equivalent blink code xx. There might not be a whole lot in the manual dedicated to just the blink codes; you should be able to find the paragraphs (probably near the front) where it explains that there are blink codes, and shows how to trigger and read them, and explains how they are shown in the table. Of course by now you already know that stuff, but when you find the section that would have told you, you'll know you've found the right place. It is in there ... that's how I learned about 'em ....

-Chap

 

It's possible that the exact phrase "blink code" is just something we PriusChatters started calling those codes, but it will still be worthwhile for you to find the sections in the manual that introduce them, even if you don't find that exact phrase. Also, I should have mentioned (because you posted you were getting blinks on more than one dash light), you'll want to study the book enough to know which ECU blinks the codes on which dash light, so you can be sure you are looking in the right table for each. I have confused myself that way at least once before.

A scan tool that can pull codes from all the ECUs in a Prius does make things easier; one can hope O'Reilly's has one, but it may be a long shot. You can get your own for pretty cheap if you have a laptop to hook it to; look for threads here about "Mini VCI".

-Chap