Stop Driving for Mileage in HOV Lanes

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Stilview, May 30, 2006.

  1. jasonlava

    jasonlava New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusenvy @ Jun 2 2006, 04:42 AM) [snapback]264553[/snapback]</div>
    I saw a front license plate on a Ford Explorer that had the word "MOVE" when viewed through a mirror. Yes, that is obnoxious and the drive was very much an ahole weaving around me and other cars.

    You guys should give Hwy 90 in Lafayette, LA a try. See how many "angry truck drivers" tailgate you and cut you off. That's the term I give these big Silverado owners that think they own the road. Mosty 18-wheeler drivers are cool except for a few bad ones every now and then.

    I normally drive a VW Beetle TDI but I drive my dad's Prius every now and then. You people talk about "Prius haters" well, us Beetle drivers aren't welcome on the roads either. I've seen many cars tailgate and whip around me driving in the Beetle.
     
  2. The Old Man

    The Old Man New Member

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    HOV Lanes DOES NOT EQUAL Autobahn.
     
  3. keydiver

    keydiver New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(j24816 @ Jun 2 2006, 12:13 AM) [snapback]264494[/snapback]</div>
    Man, WHO is writing your laws out there?? :lol: :lol:
     
  4. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

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    How about this from Washington State.

    http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/HOV/guide.htm

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Washington State DOT")</div>
    It advises moving over and letting aggressive drivers pass for safety, but clearly indicates that it is the speeder/tailgater that is in violation and will be ticketed, not the driver going the speed limit.
     
  5. mikepaul

    mikepaul Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Jun 1 2006, 05:06 PM) [snapback]264234[/snapback]</div>
    'Artifically low' is another one of those whosez things that need explaining. Who determines that any speed limit is 'artificially low': the people who think only when their car turns into an airfoil is it going to fast? If a curve is marked safe at 55MPH, but your car hangs in there at 70MPH, is it legitimate to get a can of paint and update the sign?

    Face it, unless there is NO limit, speeders will find "reasons" to exceed the posted one. It's the nature of the disease...
    So a massive pullover of all cars in a 5-mile stretch, giving each and every driver a ticket, is the most appropriate thing. It'll tie up traffic for hours, but will prove to them that they do not control the roads, the police do. Lead helicopter determines first car in pack, trailing helicopter determines last, anyone in-between gets the ticket. Police will also hand tickets to everyone using offramps that section. With practice, people might only be delayed 6 or 7 hours. Lost jobs? Too darn bad.

    How's THAT for solving a speeding problem?...
     
  6. samoan_ridah

    samoan_ridah New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikepaul @ May 31 2006, 12:29 PM) [snapback]263542[/snapback]</div>
    (1) When there are five cars piled up behind you, you are obviously slowing the "flow" of traffic. If you drive a freeway to work everyday you pretty much should be able to determine the general speed of various lanes at various locations throughout the commute. Most people know that the HOV lanes generally move at least at the speed limit. Going any slower than that is definitely screwing with it.

    (2) True, but that goes back to you being the enforcer of the speed limits rather than you just simply speeding up a little or moving out of the way. If it were just that one jerk that would tailgate someone doing 85 behind you then that's a different story from what I'm getting at here.

    (3) I agree that it is dangerous from the standpoint that someone could illegally jump over but that goes back to if you don't feel comfortable in a certain situation, feel free to drive in the granny...err slow lane.


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ May 31 2006, 01:07 PM) [snapback]263562[/snapback]</div>
    True but if you are driving 62mph and you see 5 cars piled up behind you, you are trying to enforce the law, period. You are arrogantly sending the message that even though the rest of the drivers in your lane want to "break the law" by going 70 in 65 zone, you aren't going to budge. All the while hoping that a CHP officer will see your good deed and give you some type of Good Citizen award.


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mssmith95 @ May 31 2006, 11:27 PM) [snapback]263908[/snapback]</div>
    Again with the enforcement issue. It is this arrogant attitude that is going to get our privilege revoked. Trust me, you can't save the entire world Superman, so you better just learn to live in it.


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hschuck @ Jun 1 2006, 03:46 PM) [snapback]264294[/snapback]</div>
    Thank you for posting this. I was trying to look for this code when I initially replied. It basically gives you the general rule of thumb concerning this type of situation.
     
  7. Tadashi

    Tadashi Member

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    I like the excuse "I was going with the flow of traffic." My wife tried that one a few times. Got a ticket for both and she is married to a military police officer, granted I only had jurisdiction on federal property when I worked road duty. :p I have seen a cop pull over 8 people at once for going 70-ish in a 60 zone. But I agree if you are going to drive the speed limit or slower, move right.

    Also, when they say normal flow they still mean within the speed limit posted.
     
  8. samoan_ridah

    samoan_ridah New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tadashi @ Jun 2 2006, 11:11 AM) [snapback]264756[/snapback]</div>
    Of course you must exercise your own judgement in any driving situation. If the entire freeway is moving at 70 I am sure it would be hard for any officer to try and enforce a 65 speed limit. I am not calling you a liar but I would think it would be very difficult and dangerous for an officer to try and pull over 8 cars for speeding at the same time. I know there are certain other cop-traps where they will stop multiple cars but not usually at highway speeds.
     
  9. Tadashi

    Tadashi Member

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    No the traffic was on I5 (in CA, in city limits) and there was enough room for everyone to pull over. I doubt he would do it if it was wall to wall traffic. But I have rarely seen this type of traffic (except maybe on the NJ turnpike :p) where it was moving at 75+ MPH
     
  10. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator
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    For what it's worth, I've dropped from 74mph to 65mph for my 37 mile commute, and my mileage has increased from 50-52 to 56mpg. Granted, I do stay in the right lanes, and move out of the way if I"m not in the right lanes - that's courtesy. However, in traffic situations, doing 10-35+mph more than the next adjacent lane is simply dangerous due to reasons already mentioned. The HOV is no exception, especially in AZ.

    In AZ, the HOV lane can be entered and exited at any time, though being a solid white line, frequent changing is discouraged. However, this doesn't stop anyone from entering (or exiting) at any time - which requires even more caution, or just slowing down. Also worth noting, our HOV lanes are 2+ only between 6a-9a and 3p-7p. Any other time they're free-for-all.

    Note, when I'm driving at 74mph w/ cruise control (HOV lane or not), I will move over if others want to go faster. More often than not at this speed, I'm catching up to others if it's somewhere near commute time.

    Funny thing is here in Phoenix, as you enter the metro area, the speeds drop to 55mph in some areas (I10 between I17 and US60 is one), however people keep cruising at 75mph+ plus, including DPS (AZ's CHP) ;-)

    People are so concerned w/ ETA, but allowing more time fixes that. And it's lighter on the wallet to boot. At 56mpg, I can get almost 1 more commute out of my tank than I can at 51mpg.
     
  11. Tadashi

    Tadashi Member

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    I recently got to make fun of a friend because he is more concerned with ETA than the limit. He blasted home at 70+ MPH. I ended up catching up to him halfway in town when he hit all the stop lights. I think they time the lights badly here in El Paso. I say throw in the book on tape and enjoy the ride. :)
     
  12. SW03ES

    SW03ES Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikepaul @ Jun 2 2006, 01:46 PM) [snapback]264737[/snapback]</div>
    Well, when the flow of traffic is so much higher than the posted speed limit that driving the speed limit is dangerous and police don't bother to enforce the limits unless people are speeding in excess of 20+MPH I'd say the speed limit is too low.

    Again, you're not listening to me. Where's the problem? If people are driving a certain speed for flow of traffic on a roadway and everybody's safe, where's the problem?

    The problem is that speed limits in this country have ALWAYS been set to do one thing, maximize municipalities income from enforcement. Its an indirect taxation, and its wrong.
     
  13. GreenGene

    GreenGene New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Jun 2 2006, 01:31 PM) [snapback]264724[/snapback]</div>
    Ironically, in northern Virginia, the HOV lanes on I-95/395 are the fast lanes. The speed limit in the regular lanes is 55; in the HOV lanes, 65. I think they justified the higher speed limit since the HOV lanes are separated from the regular lanes by barriers, meaning limited access - no weaving back and forth between HOV and regular.

    That said, the drivers around DC drive FAST, at least partly because, for much of the time, they can't - they're stuck in traffic ... so when the opportunity is there, they are flyin'! I'm a "go-with-the-flow" kinda guy, but when the flow is heading on down the road at 80+ mph, they're going without me. :)
     
  14. mikepaul

    mikepaul Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Jun 2 2006, 03:10 PM) [snapback]264793[/snapback]</div>
    Ummm, 'the flow of traffic' should threshold at the speed limit. No court should ever let you walk away from a ticket because "everyone is going that fast", so why should anyone use the speed of the group to excuse what they do? I realize you are doing that, but explain to me why it's legitimate...
    Ummm, violating the law seems problematic to me.

    Sure, it's probably jealousy, where speeders go by unpunished. I notice the same thing when church groups want sins punished now, instead of waiting for God to do it on Judgement Day. Why just let others get away with stuff you don't do? Heck, God might even let them off scot-free and where's the value of not sinning then? So nail them now while you can. As far as speeders go, sounds good to me.

    But is is the law, even if just a little law. They're all little once you get started breaking them...
    The problem is, people who need to speed make up excuses why the law is wrong. Only when their car would be out-of-control do they think they'd be going too fast. Until that point, everyone should just get out of their way.

    Which is crap, and someday that may sink in...
     
  15. mssmith95

    mssmith95 Michael

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(samoan_ridah @ Jun 2 2006, 11:17 AM) [snapback]264759[/snapback]</div>
    Yes, but your argument is saying that we must exercise YOUR judgement in any driving situation and accept that because a certain percentage of cars are speeding, their judgement that it is OK to speed must be the correct one.

    No matter what lane you drive in, a high speed crash by someone grossly exceeding the limit will end up taking out cars in ALL lanes of the freeway, not just the HOV lane!

    Should we take comfort that they had made the judgement that it was ok to go 80?

    Here is a chart I found about braking distances and the time it takes.


    Speed Thinking Distance Braking Distance Stopping Distance
    20 22 21 43
    30 33 47 80
    40 44 84 128
    50 55 131 186
    60 66 198 264
    70 77 270 347

    So at 80 MPH your distance it probably close to 31% longer then at 70mph. (obviously these numbers would have to take account the actual Prius braking system, but the percentage difference between the speeds would be very similar).

    I guess it boils down to the argument that BOTH speeders and non-speeders feel they have the right to the road. However, the fact remains that only the Speeders have to look for the Highway patrol. If you are going the limit or slightly faster you only have to watch for the speeders. Don't get me wrong...I am not defending those who go less then the limit, or even those who go exactly the limit when the entire freeway, including the slow lane is going really fast. But I just can't tolerate those who insist on going 85 when 95% of the vehicles are going 65-70!

    By the way, samoan_ridah, I noticed that you are one of the few to not have added your location and package...so please get with the "flow" of the site (ha, ha .... a joke!)
     
  16. Stairman

    Stairman New Member

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    I was blocked in the HOV lane yesterday by a car going 63. I'm sure his speedometer indicated 65, most read a little high. I waited for the next opening to move right and go around him, but the three guys behing me didn't.

    While I don't expect anyone's mind is going to be changed here, I think the limited access HOV lane makes a more complicated situation. I firmly believe that it is legally and morally appropriate to move to the right if traffic is moving faster than you are. On the other hand, sometimes you have to decide what your limit is. I prefer not to drive faster than 75. I also prefer to leave a little more space in front of me. I'll drop out of the HOV lane if I'm holding up traffic, but not if the guy behind me is just enraged because I'm not tailgating.
     
  17. j24816

    j24816 New Member

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    Has anyone changed their opinion after reading all these posts?
     
  18. mssmith95

    mssmith95 Michael

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(j24816 @ Jun 2 2006, 05:05 PM) [snapback]264916[/snapback]</div>
    No, but it sure is fun! :D
     
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