Stop Light Frustration

Tom6850 · Apr 1, 2007

I'm not sure this is the right forum for this but here goes. I try my hardest to improve my MPG, but I live in the land of Stop Lights (my wife calls them traffic lights) and Stop Signs. No Stop Lights are synchronized that you could pass thru on a green light occasionally. They have it timed perfectly that you get every light RED. If they don't have a Stop Light at an intersection they make it a four way Stop Signed intersection, that way everyone must stop. I believe that our township and state DOT have someone just drive around and look for an intersection without a Stop Light or Stop Sign so that they can keep the suppliers of Stop Lights and Stop signs in business. It must be a relatives' business.

priusFTW · Apr 1, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom 6850 @ Apr 1 2007, 08:47 AM) [snapback]415908[/snapback]</div>

I'm not sure this is the right forum for this but here goes. I try my hardest to improve my MPG, but I live in the land of Stop Lights (my wife calls them traffic lights) and Stop Signs. No Stop Lights are synchronized that you could pass thru on a green light occasionally. They have it timed perfectly that you get every light RED. If they don't have a Stop Light at an intersection they make it a four way Stop Signed intersection, that way everyone must stop. I believe that our township and state DOT have someone just drive around and look for an intersection without a Stop Light or Stop Sign so that they can keep the suppliers of Stop Lights and Stop signs in business. It must be a relatives' business.
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Would'nt the EV mod help you out some? I'm not really sure and would like to know the answer. I live in the country and drive 15 miles to work, not one single traffic light and only one stop to turn left onto the main road, lol.

nwprius · Apr 1, 2007

I too have a stretch of 10 miles of stop lights and speed limits of 40 for the first 3 miles and 35 for the next 7. It is frustrating. I make it easier by out accelerating most of the other cars showing them that the Prius is no slouch, (I accelerate rather briskly) and I always improve my mileage over this period. I average 56 mph for the ten miles. Lots of Pulse and Glide. Make it fun.

galaxee · Apr 1, 2007

same here, new commute is 4 miles with 9 stoplights. drives me crazy! i'm going to try to bike it once i determine that the neighborhood i drive through is safe. right now i'm on the fence about that.

qbee42 · Apr 1, 2007

All those stops are frustrating, but at least you have the right car for it. It would only be worse in a conventional automobile.

Tom

Stev0 · Apr 1, 2007

I have a similar situation: my average drive is about five miles. In that distance are five traffic lights (most which I almost always have to stop at, one often through two cycles) and two stop signs. "Pulse and Glide" is on my list of "things I will never be able to do." Lately I've been getting about 43 MPG (up from a month ago where it was about 37). As it gets even warmer, my MPG will go up. The moral of the story: Any other car would be getting much worse MPG.

JimboK · Apr 1, 2007

Stev0 @ Apr 1 2007 said: ↑

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"Pulse and Glide" is on my list of "things I will never be able to do." [/b]
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You might not be able to do it constantly, but you could have some semblance of it between lights depending on traffic, number of lanes, and prevailing speeds. Two lanes] 55 MPH with traffic, probably not. Four lanes @ 35 MPH or less, probably. Five lights and two stop signs in seven miles is not enough by itself to prevent it, and in fact between lights spaced that far apart you may have several good opportunities.

At a minimum, you can anticipate your slowdown for the next light far enough in advance to use mostly gliding (as opposed to regen or braking) to come to a near-stop. Better is to learn the timing of the lights and match the timing of the glide to allow you to get no slower than, say, 15-20 MPH. In between lights, again depending on the route and traffic, you might have additional P&G opportunities, though you might have to modify your minimum and maximum speeds and avoid full pulses or full glides, especially if traffic is heavy. If lights are closely spaced and red, then EV mode might help you, if not by the button as priusFTW suggests, then at least via pedal feathering. Just be careful to avoid EV overuse and running the battery down too much. Otherwise, gliding becomes more difficult as the ICE wants to light to recharge it.

What might hurt you is your overall short commute and inadequate ICE warmup time. For this, you might consider an engine block heater. In fact if you haven't already seen FireEngineer's thread, he's headed your way to do EBH installations. He may also be able to give you some tips on increasing your mileage. He commutes regularly through Chicago-area traffic, and manages MPG in the 60s.

Also consider looking for alternative routes that, though a bit longer, might be more suitable for P&G. If your overall fuel consumption drops, you could justify it.

I have a 25-mile commute I make to a part time job site across town with a wide variety of road and traffic conditions. It begins in the suburbs, goes through the middle of the city of Richmond, and ends in the 'burbs on the other side. Road conditions vary considerably: anywhere from 25 to 55 MPH; two, four, and six lanes; stop lights spaced from a block apart (10 in a row in one section) to a couple of miles apart. Traffic is at least moderate for most of this. I use P&G in some form or another for most of the trip, with the main limitations being traffic conditions; I try to stay safe and avoid inciting road rage. I use pedal-induced EV mode between closely spaced back-to-back red lights. I also use EV mode judiciously to briefly extend glides and maintain speed in heavier traffic. I'm getting good results: With the warm weather we've had recently, I've gotten per-trip MPGs on that commute in the 70s and lower 80s.
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Stev0 · Apr 1, 2007

416069[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
You might not be able to do it constantly, but you could have some semblance of it between lights depending on traffic, number of lanes, and prevailing speeds. Two lanes]
At a minimum, you can anticipate your slowdown for the next light far enough in advance to use mostly gliding (as opposed to regen or braking) to come to a near-stop. Better is to learn the timing of the lights and match the timing of the glide to allow you to get no slower than, say, 15-20 MPH.[/b]
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I do glide to stops, almost always (I don't if the driver in front of me does something unexpected suddenly, which isn't uncommon). As for timing of lights, in my five minute journey, I am on four different roads whose lights have totally different timing.

In between lights, again depending on the route and traffic, you might have additional P&G opportunities, though you might have to modify your minimum and maximum speeds and avoid full pulses or full glides, especially if traffic is heavy.[/b]
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Yup, traffic is heavy the entire way.

What might hurt you is your overall short commute and inadequate ICE warmup time. For this, you might consider an engine block heater.[/b]
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Yeah, in the 20-and-less degree weather we had nonstop in February and March, I'd generally get to wherever I have to go before the ICE warmed up.

In fact if you haven't already seen FireEngineer's thread, he's headed your way to do EBH installations. He may also be able to give you some tips on increasing your mileage. He commutes regularly through Chicago-area traffic, and manages MPG in the 60s.[/b]
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I'll have to check that out.

Also consider looking for alternative routes that, though a bit longer, might be more suitable for P&G. If your overall fuel consumption drops, you could justify it.[/b]
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No matter which way I go, I'm looking at one lane each way, heavy traffic, hills, and either lots of stop signs or traffic lights.

JimboK · Apr 2, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Apr 1 2007, 05:21 PM) [snapback]416079[/snapback]</div>

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Well, it seems like you've considered all angles. Of course I probably could have concluded that by looking at your post count. Someone with nearly 2000 posts probably has seen and tried most everything.

You didn't mention hills, so that adds another wrinkle. I have a couple of pretty steep hills in my cross-town commute, but traffic is generally light enough that I can glide down and gain momentum to help carry me up the next uphill. Regardless, it sounds like your hill-laden, heavy-traffic, one-lane, 30 MPH scenario is an MPG killer (in any vehicle).

When you say "glide," is it a truly an ICE-off glide induced by feathering the pedal ever so slightly, or is it just coasting with your foot completely off the pedal? I suspect you have a hard time getting the ICE warm enough for a true glide (in cooler weather anyway), given your speed and the Prius' annoying tendency not to shut the ICE off for glides that begin at < 35 MPH.

P&G aside, I really would pursue the EBH. I've been able to boost the MPG in my first 5-minute segment from about 25 to 35-50, depending on the route, OAT, and traffic. It would seem to be most helpful to those such as yourself with short trips on a cold ICE.

FireEngineer · Apr 2, 2007

Stev0,

JimboK is right, an engine block heater and a grill block would help your MPG for a short "traffic controlled" commute. I'll be traveling past you on I-91 early Thursday (coming out of West Haven, CT) and I'll be staying in Sturbridge, MA Friday evening. I can do an install in a parking lot at your work if it works out for you, take 30 minutes. If you have time I could also show you some of my "go and glide" city commute driving.

Wayne

Stev0 · Apr 2, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FireEngineer @ Apr 2 2007, 08:30 AM) [snapback]416371[/snapback]</div>

Stev0,

JimboK is right, an engine block heater and a grill block would help your MPG for a short "traffic controlled" commute. I'll be traveling past you on I-91 early Thursday (coming out of West Haven, CT) and I'll be staying in Sturbridge, MA Friday evening. I can do an install in a parking lot at your work if it works out for you, take 30 minutes. If you have time I could also show you some of my "go and glide" city commute driving.

Wayne
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Eww, bad timing. I would love to take you up on your offer, but I'm going away for a week on Wednesday.

Stop Light Frustration

Tom6850 Retired

priusFTW Gen III JBL non Nav

nwprius Member

galaxee mostly benevolent

qbee42 My other car is a boat

Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

JimboK One owner, low mileage

Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

JimboK One owner, low mileage

FireEngineer Active Member

Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

All brake warning light came on when the 12v battery died - yellow line to wheels on when stopped

Stop light switch

Car Hit from Behind at Stop Light

Brake/Stop light/turn signal on a 2005

Prius rearended at stop light - body shop only replacing bumper cover?

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Stop Light Frustration

Tom6850 Retired

priusFTW Gen III JBL non Nav

nwprius Member

galaxee mostly benevolent

qbee42 My other car is a boat

Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

JimboK One owner, low mileage

Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

JimboK One owner, low mileage

FireEngineer Active Member

Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

All brake warning light came on when the 12v battery died - yellow line to wheels on when stopped

Stop light switch

Car Hit from Behind at Stop Light

Brake/Stop light/turn signal on a 2005

Prius rearended at stop light - body shop only replacing bumper cover?