Storing the 2010 for 3 months with some bad modules. Should I 'split' the pack?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by slamm3r_911, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. slamm3r_911

    slamm3r_911 Junior Member

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    Hi all,

    The Prius battle has been real for me. I got a 2010 with almost 240k on the clock and have been paying for the low price tag ever since with failing hybrid modules, lack of maintenance on entire car, failed 12v aux battery, and the list goes on. I think I'm almost out of the woods but, who knows. Maybe it's time to get a 2014....heard they switched module manufacturers at this time. Sidenote: eBay sellers almost never list the year of the modules they are selling, which I know most people here are probably aware of.

    TL;DR I've replaced spark plugs, injectors, done routine maintenance on everything up front I can get to, cleaned electrical fan, flushed transaxle fluid (next change, will be using something other than the 'World' fluid that's only good for 50k before being black as SOOT). Also running a dry cell Hydrogen kit from HydroClubUSA in Tennessee.

    I'm down to 30mpg and that's mostly due to the battery pack.......

    I've got about 10 modules replaced with good(ish) ones. Between 4 and 6 of them are what I'd call "critical" with problems worse enough that I might be dealing with a cell reversal soon, and I'd say 8 "should" be replaced in my opinion with how they perform in reference to all modules in the pack after running uniform, timed voltage drop tests on them to roughly measure capacity, and then doing a resting vs. voltage drop test at a measured Ohm load (headlight bulb), using formula r_internal=v_bat/ (current) - (ohms of external load) to find internal resistance.

    After lots of research and a 4 or 5 day process of hemming and hawing over the best way to get by with what I own and have got in the car's pack as of now, I matched and balanced the pack as well as I could using the method of matching internal resistance sums of each block so computer sees minimal problems and also so that they (hopefully) don't damage eachother due to series discharge rate not being as consistent as possible.

    I am dealing with a disparity in module capacity and resistance due to having to run the vehicle with some bad modules. I'm analytical about the way I keep windows down a bit with guards and a sun shade in front to keep internal battery temp down around 60-80 F. And I make sure to try and keep the ECU in "Check Hybrid System" mode with the Yellow triangle due to it taking the stress off the trac battery and putting it on the engine instead, keeping battery at about 60% SOC (why the ECU SOMETIMES prohibits manual fan control when using Hybrid Assistant app thru android whilst car has a 'Check Hybrid System' CEL mode on is part ot Toyota's infinite wisdom and not mine).

    So my question is this: What should I do if I need to park the car for about 3 months? I will be able to visit the car once in a while (once or twice a month if I really have to) and could plug in/run my Prolong charger hooked to the harness in back.

    Question #1: Should I SPLIT the pack using the orange disconnect in order to isolate the bad modules from the new modules I've sunk money into?
    I don't have the money to replace modules until later this year, and I don't want to really GOOD modules getting screwed up while parked. Better to just visit that car and trickle charge it here and there?? Or is a combination of both splitting pack and periodic charging the best way?

    Question#2: I need to get 300 miles from where I'm currently located to where car will be stored for a few months (seasonal job offer). Is it alright to run the car in Check Hybrid System mode for this trip? I make sure coolant is topped and motor temp doesn't go too high.

    Motor stuff:
    I've been thinking about dropping a different motor in this thing due to some consistent valve rattles; however my Grandfather mentioned a fraction of a quart of ATF-4 in the oil crankcase run for 50-100 miles immediately prior to oil change can clear up almost any valve noise in an engine like this, and many friends of his have avoided a top end rebuild using this method. May try that first.....
    Also I'm confused why Toyota didn't get more liberal with DC cooling fan settings in the firmware for this car. Fan doesn't turn on until average temp is near 100 degrees. At that temp, pack is not as stable IMO. I can trigger fan to run at between 2 and 6 and it will always keep battery down at a nominal temperature. Was this planned obsolescence on part of Toyota? And why do dealers not recommend changing Transaxle fluids?

    -bigboydrs
     

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  2. slamm3r_911

    slamm3r_911 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm sure this thing will work itself out without advice.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    nice bump

    can you get someone to put it in ready for a half hour a week?
     
  4. slamm3r_911

    slamm3r_911 Junior Member

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    bump :)
    Yes.... likely could start it once a week, now that I know that as being a good interval.
    Although I'm over 2/3 of the way through the seasonal job and have only been starting it once a month or so.... hasn't been a good situation as I can tell, and I've only run it for 10 minutes at a time.
    Definitely needs more time than that, use it or lose it... Hindsight is 20/20; yesterday had a chance to visit the vehicle and started it. Got a very noisy rattle, like someone was shaking a rock around in a bucket under the hood. Happened for a while upon 3 motor restarts with the button, then tapered off and stopped making the noise once amperage draw from the HV pack was lower and it was getting up off it's flatness. This has happened -rarely- to me, once when I rebuilt the HV pack up in the east part of the country and started without disconnecting the 12v starting battery to reset computer.
    I'm assuming this knocking could be one of 3 things after a breakfast discussion with a colleague who owns same year and nearly same mileage Prius as mine. This is not the same as the top end sounding rattle that most of these engines develop due to loose rings, but louder and placed differently. Most likely I'm thinking it's the trans/generator assembly failing and faltering, which could also explain some of my HV battery issues. It sounds like a bearing is starting to fail inside.
    According to him, this can also be coolant getting into cylinder #1 and once it burns off, it evens out and stops knocking once it's burned off. I guess these motors are prone to head gasket failures because of this, or something else? Not sure what the new CEL light is as of yet (seems different than previous), will check that next opportunity I get. I was reading electrontechnik's post from about 2015 with similar symptoms. I did take the Prius to a shop and the guy seemed adamant that my motor was "shot" as his compression test came back with all cylinders being very low compression.... I might know a few things more about the rings in these motors than he does though, lol.
    I've run "Restore" through the oil recently to bring back compression, and have been getting by on oil consumption by throwing in thick oil stabilizer.... likely the oil stabilizer has been a bad idea as first off the oil stabilizer I've been putting in is an off brand, rather than lucas or high quality which could just mess things up in general due to cheapness, and really I've learned that the oil pressure on this motor is essential to proper operation. Not sure how compression has improved with "Restore" but I'm about to do an oil change so, we'll see if oil consumption itself goes down now...
    3rd thing this knocking could be intake manifold gasket leaking air and causing an issue with fuel/air mix?
    I'm definitely looking to replace this motor, and the generator/transmission in one fell swoop. I'm planning on getting tools on hand and hoisting the body up to expose frame after busting loose the suspension mounts, etc to free it. Then popping in a motor and tranny with many less miles. I want to keep running this car and not deal with trying to flip it, as I feel it may end up in a junk yard (maybe it belongs there).

    Cheers!
     
  5. The Critic

    The Critic Resident Critic

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    Low compression and a start-up rattle on these is almost always a failed head gasket. If the engine has been operated for any significant length of time with the failed head gasket, you are likely to have bent connecting rods.
     
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  6. slamm3r_911

    slamm3r_911 Junior Member

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    I just read up on electrotechnik's aforementioned thread and also donzoh1's more recent thread and I do agree with you, Critic. I'm not sure if I've got a bent connecting rod but this engine has obviously been abused before I had anything to do with it. Thank you for the sticky as well. Check out car-part (website) for a great junkyard search. Lots of dead Prius III's with lower mileage on the motors that might have a salvageable motor. I'm very leery about trying to fix this vehicle any further, but I have what I have. Maybe a rebuild of the motor wouldn't be so bad if 2015 rings are used? ugh.

    No new codes beyond POA80 (replace hybrid pack) yet. Been a few miles since last DTC clean run... lol

    I'm considering options now. I need to drive the vehicle about 3-400 or so miles quasi-as-is, but first (tomorrow) I'm planning to change oil, re-build and balance the battery pack with 14 new modules (10 already have been replaced) then do at least one Prolong charger balance charge, as well as pull off EGR to clean out the garbage and brush oil out of the intake manifold/clean the throttle body.

    I'm glad I checked the forum; thank you for the info. I'll also test coolant to see how acidic it is using the resistance method with multimeter (the option I have available right now) with the car in Off mode tomorrow whilst taking care of the above "laundry list" (I've also got 2 screwed up tires on the thing... haven't been able to keep air in these stupid aluminum rims and it seems nobody on the west side of the USA has ever heard of adding tubes to tires... they look at you really funny). :(

    I don't have immediate access to an appropriate pH test for this application per electrotechnik's thread. I have access to general pH testing strips (pHydrion Vivid Litmus paper)... but I doubt this is appropriate. To quote Den49, "you need a PH test strip that is chemically designed to measure PH in long-life coolants, not conventional (green) coolant, nor soil or pool water. The one I use is ACUSTRIP, Part No. 1550, Acustrip Coolant Test Strips, 800-947-2078. It measures PH and freeze/boiling point protection."

    So I'll bring the litmus paper and see what it says, and check ohms in the fill tank too. I'll post about this in a few days hopefully with other updates.

    Sounds like of the mentioned possible causes of knocking I listed last post, it's probably head gasket failing... bummer. I noticed coolant drop a little bit somewhere along the journey within last oil change or two, so I grabbed a jug and have kept it around. No more coolant loss yet, though. Maybe I slowed down the acidity eating the gasket up by freshening 'er up a lil bit...
    Background on the noise is I haven't noticed the real loud knocking until within I'd say, this last oil change (10k miles). Some kinda valve rattle has been quasi-consistent since I got the car, but this seems different.
    I'm still wondering why so far it has only tended to happen when HV battery is flat.

    For the motor, I'm considering the following:
    -DIY coolant drain/fill
    -Gasket stop leak (am I brave?) and possibly an additional drain and fill to get the crap out of there after it's done its duty.
    -Absolutely swapping out this engine before anything else happens ASAP, and bringing a new generator assembly into the picture (they're cheap-ish from junkyards with low miles anyway).
    -Both new engine and generator will be as new as I can afford (hoping at minimum 2014, really want a '15 for rings too) and with as low of miles as possible

    For the trac battery I'll be matching modules based on module drops under consistent load, and pairing them so each block has the same net voltage drop. I'm trying to dig up my notes on how I did this last time... can't remember if weakest blocks are best towards the center or out at the edges of the pack?
    I had a 2015 wreck salvage battery pack on its way from Minnesota with unknown but low miles... someone dropped the ball so I had to do plan B and get individual modules.



    tl;dr:
    I'm -really- pissed at the dealer who sold me this garbage heap. I could go on about them..... but best to simply leave them a negative Google review and blow off the steam; live and learn. They really didn't do anything other than flip this car, and it was headed downhill when I bought it at about 225,000 miles; I knew nothing about the makeup of a Prius back then, but I am learning very quickly.

    If anyone wants 28 modules for a core, I'll probably be around south CA if you need a set ;)
     
  7. slamm3r_911

    slamm3r_911 Junior Member

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    Update, ohmmeter appears to show voltage buildup in coolant. Startup is smooth with minimal coolant loss most of the time and running sounds good. Will know more tomorrow.
    Battery build is going smoothly. Will post formulas and spreadsheets explaining my process eventually; I got detailed this time.

    Still trying to find a thread referencing battery builds about strong or weak modules at edge of pack...

    Cheers!
     
  8. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    We haven’t had a lot of threads or technical advice about battery rebuilding. Most people don’t go that route on a do-it-yourself basis. That’s probably why you aren’t getting much help.
     
  9. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Also it’s wack o mole and temp solutions with hv battery ain’t worth it surrounded by big orange cables with lighting symbols
     
  10. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    I don’t really agree with that... a lot of us do some fairly complicated work on these cars. We just don’t have a lot of knowledge about repairing or rebuilding/rebalancing HV battery packs. If someone asked about repairing the motors inside of a Prius transaxle, it would probably be the same case: We don’t lack the skill or interest, we just don’t have the knowledge right now; as a community.

    My own guess is that in three to five years, these cars will all be older and the Gen III owners keeping the cars on the road by then will have more interest in rebuilding batteries, voltage inverters and transaxles. We just aren’t there yet with the car’s lifecycle; we seem to be at the head gasket/valve grind phase.
     
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  11. slamm3r_911

    slamm3r_911 Junior Member

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    Meh.

    I really posted this thread in hopes of answering the question "should I yank the orange lego brick to split the pack or not"
    By the end of this post unless someone has additional questions I'll be about ready to close the thread off. I'm really happy with the responses I have gotten and, believe me, I've read up on some rebuild posts/threads heavily to move forward with the rebuild. Also this isn't my 'first rodeo' with rebuilding a Prius pack. I've been dealing with constant issues with mine since late 2017.

    The car got me from Michigan to Arizona and lasted me quite a while. It was running ok enough to feel it was reliable to tool around town in even with check hyrid system mode on. I attribute this to the cold weather up north combined with the propensity of the charging and discharging method I used, etc.... I REALLY had TERRIBLY unbalanced modules in the pack when I broke into it this last week. Like, real bad. I had essentially reconditioned grandfather, original modules with 7.8 volt plus and at least 4-4.5 Ah capacities... so something tells me the proof is in the pairing, the balancing, and the reconditioning, less than it is in the capacities or discharge rates of modules used. Maybe not, but I say this because I had modules with sky high discharge rates and some with miniscule discharge rates, and I made it over 2000 miles with the car. Maybe this was due to it being stuck in POA80 Check Hybrid mode, maybe due to how I went about my previous rebuild. But, enough - onto the info.

    I actually rebuilt the pack twice, learning many lessons as I went forward. Retracing my steps logically as I create this post - hoping it'll help me and someone else in the future if I (doubtfully) continue down the road of Prius Hell.

    I am developing sort of a method for doing this at least half right based on other threads, but I haven't the time to pull it all together. This community is beautiful and based on individuals with good nature who are looking out for each other... so I would like to contribute the details of how I went about these particular rebuilds and how it failed for me by my estimations, so someone else does not do the same thing. Also with Priuschat info being a little spread out, there are differing opinions on how to match and balance the packs. I have my own understanding of electronics so bear with me if you want to know a little about my philosophy and 'methodology' and what has and has not worked out.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rebuild #1 sometime early 2019, February-ish

    About January or so I ordered 10 replacement modules and had them installed (myself) by sometime February or March. Hard to remember exactly when. This got me along with the work I did then, WITHOUT an engine shutdown or the Prius refusing to start and drive, for a trip cross-USA and quite a few miles/months. I ran the Prolong hybrid balance trickle charger very very heavily during this rebuild, and went through I think at least 2 full light-bulb discharge cycles and recharge cycles with it, charging to at least 240 volts (plus) and giving ample time for battery to equalize/balance. I may have even done 3 discharge cycles.

    When isolating modules to choose the strongest for the first rebuild, I took my meticulous time and was very analytical, but my notes were sloppier than this go-round.
    I recall doing at least two separate tests on ALL 38 modules in my posession, including the 28 from my failing pack and the 10 eBay modules.

    This is one table to aid explaining how I tested them the first time, back in February. For each module, checked resting voltage (after charging to 240 volts and letting rest for at least an hour). To charge the 10 new ones, I installed them in spaces 14-28 in end of pack and charged with prolong immediately following hookup with orange lego-brick (lego my voltage... get it? nah...). After charging them up and measuring resting voltage, I applied a 1 ohm load with a prius headlight bulb (pretty sure it's a halogen low-beam) until voltage hit a certain voltage, namely 7.75 and 7.5 volts. I recorded the time it took to hit this voltage, as the below table suggests (sample table).

    This is how I decided to choose what modules to use in the rebuilt pack from what I had available.
    Module# Begin V 7.75 V 7.5 V (Total Time sum) (pair time to 7.5 V)
    24 7.82 0:10 4:30 4:40
    21 7.85 0:20 4:40 5:00 9:40

    Next, I paired them up so that the total time to hit 7.5 from the above table was as equalized as possible (example column 6, pair time to 7.5 V).

    I also did additional testing with same lightbulb to check voltage under load, which then was used to compute the pair sum resistance (do all of this using Excel formulas... it saves LOTS of time).
    THIS time around testing, I don't believe I gave them much more than 60 seconds under load before recording VOLTAGE rather than TIME to reach designated voltage. I then double checked the original table (above sample) to see which should really be paired together so I could match discharge rates as effectively as possible while also matching pair sum resistance as well as I could!!
    Advice from somewhere on the Priuschat forum read "put together pairs so that all module pairs have the same total drop (sum of the two module drops)."


    This is a table with the new layout of modules and explanation of the above paragraph (EDIT: formatting was bonked to I uploaded
    testing spreadsheet modified (Feb 2019).xlsx instead):

    note: The (ref) column in above (edit: Excel file) is the previous cell placement as well as #1-10 in the box from eBay seller. I pasted them in and didn't denote which were from original pack and which were additions from eBay, but for sake of explaining the method this is moot)

    So I did what I could with what I had. You'll notice I built it out with resistance being less on outsides and high pair drops being on the inside if possible. I definitely had a few unhappy modules.

    Nevertheless, module drop was matched pretty well and resistance follows a nice curve throughout. This got me farther than the next rash rebuild.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rebuild #2 5-13 to 5-19 2019

    Last week's rebuild did not bring me so much luck, but it really isn't a hopeless cause by any stretch of the euphamism. After the build and re-shuffle of modules, the pack performed excellently until cell reversal and module voltage disparity began to kick in. I had real healthy accelleration and it acted like a 'new' car again.
    This rebuild began okay, then quite soon it was clear what I had done wrong. I'll likely rebuild the pack in proper conditions and sell it to someone for a discount.

    If you want the juicy stuff first... A reversed cell was the result on the weakest module pair on tail end of pack (14 or modules 27/28). Transmission threw a couple DTC's, and I thought Prius was buttered toast with a fried inverter or maybe seized planetary bearing. Heh. Next day she started up and purred again, and only code that came back after a clear was POB86 I think. One module on the end is still failing as other forum members have stated is "irreversible" after an internal cell reversal. Under A/C and reverse with brake and gas pedal load, Torque read 0.0000's on pair 14 again after it got past a voltage variance of 0.5, just like it did when the car stranded me. And again, it threw the same tranny codes. Didn't panic, I had my towel with me. So I towed it back to camp at 35mph with tail tucked between legs... Now waiting on shipping of a wreck 2015 pack to get me by till another day.

    I think I would have had better luck with the rebuild if
    #1. I had replaced all modules instead of -nearly- all of them. I did 24, and counted on a few that that shoddy, pesky, no good for nothin' MO dealer swapped in back in early 2018.
    #2. I had adequate resources available to me (time, electricity and a cool location like last time) to balance the pack until it was happy and really bouncing at 240 volts instead of fluctuating.
    #3. (kind of #2). If I had chosen to balance the pack in cooler weather. Heavy Emphasis on the importance of this.
    Once the modules get up to 230-235 volts @ near 100 degrees F, they really really dislike being balance charged. Prolong's charger manual warns against this.
    #4. I had the time to discharge the pack using lightbulb discharger or smart discharger method to more effectively balance modules and cells.
    #5. Finally, I should have done what I did last time and tested more thoroughly.

    So, the following is how I went about this rebuild:

    First I opened Excel and formatted a nice table to work on - these tables are attached to the post.

    I can explain better on this one what I did; right away I ruled out any module from my original pack by markings. I decided to keep all 10 modules I got from eBay in January. Then I introduced all 14 modules from the new box to my list. In the end, I found 4 modules that had similar specs according to my (incomplete) testing, after sadly realizing 10 + 14 doesn't equal 28 (tl;dr my life's been stressful).

    I took each of the 24 modules and tested resting voltage, then used the same headlight lightbulb from last test (?) with 0.6 ohm resistance for 120 seconds, and recorded the voltage it landed at. ((So, I'm 99% sure this was the same light bulb, but I measured ohm resistance on it and it was 0.6. Not sure what happened there. Perhaps I used a high beam in the first test with 1 ohm and a 0.6 ohm low beam in this testing. I can't know for sure.))

    Anyway, I did NOT test the same way I tested before, obviously, and I did not take as much time and was not as thorough as I should have been; I really didn't have time to spend and spare.

    So after I put the pack together things got interesting. I charged it up to at least 240 but failed to let it balance effectively! It was hot and I was burning generator gas.
    Right away I could tell the car was unhappy after attempting to run it as it was. Voltages were really inconsistent across the pack according to PID sensors on Torque. Instead of biting the bullet and bringing the car back to park it and balance the pack in cooler weather and on grid AC, I decided to make an emotional decision that I now regret. I took Torque on my tablet and monitored the voltages of the matched up blocks on screen, and moved blocks around with icons in Realtime Info view to make them consistent across the pack, with highest voltage holdings right smack in the middle and lowest/weakest parings towards the outside.

    On the second sheet in excel file titled "Final Layout workbook" I show the resultant table of what module drops I had and sum resistances after changing the layout with Torque.

    When I busted open the pack and pulled off the bus-bar, I instantly regretted it - module bulging. My guess is this happened due to modules being warm and recently coming off the charger.

    I worked on that thing for 4+ hours to get the modules back together and clamped in the new order. Upon installing and attempted ready mode I had two issues - one was I forgot to tighten all the ground bolts (this is after a LOT of sleep deprivation) and I had forgotten to throw a bead of solder on one of the ground connections I accidentally busted off into the module bottom. Ooops....... lol.

    After I tightened the bottom ground bolts up and soldered a bead on the broken one to get ground continuity, the car started up great! I took it for a 2 mile whip and it blew me away with acceleration power and I thought I had fixed the issue completely.

    Maybe final layout testing needs to happen after balancing, and maybe after a full and proper balance, the layout should be re-arranged in accordance with how the newly paired and balanced blocks are acting.

    I took it out the next day and got about 15 miles away before the aforementioned happened and I reversed a cell in block 14. I would guess it was module 28 as spreadsheet mentions.


    So there you have it, documentation of how I performed two battery rebuilds and the method I took to do so.


    Right now my 'lego block' is unplugged and the battery is split so that reversed module/cell in block 14 doesn't drag others down or cause a fire.

    Still though, my original thread question remains unanswered. When storing the car does it make sense to split the pack? I would venture to say at this point, it depends. It depends on if your pack is healthy and you want it to stay tight. If it is badly mismatched, maybe it needs the jumper unplugged so you don't damage strong modules.
    I still don't know, but I've learned more than I care to about hybrid battery technology.

    Finally, about previous comments in relation to the head gasket being blown or broken.... I doubt this on my car, not out of wishful thinking either. I have lost virtually zero coolant, ever. I do want to test for exhaust emissions in the coolant with a tester before flushing. But it ONLY knocks like a box of rocks when the trac battery is flat as a pancake and has been sitting for a long long time neglected, and when 12 volt battery is super low too. I attribute this more to tranny/converter problems than bad engine. It really -probably- needs both swapped out but, motor really burns minimal oil when you treat it good and, MPG is right up at 50 when it's been maintained and has a happy electrical system.

    Oil changed, coolant is drained enough to get about 3-3.5 liters out of the motor-side reservoir and replaced with fresh stuff. I think this ought to reduce acidity enough to save my gaskets until getting it properly flushed. So when I get the 2015 wreck battery later this week, I ought to be able to get to my destination and FLIP THIS CAR IMMEDIATELY.

    Edit: I see now that my previous rebuild was actually in October of 2018, and purchased modules sometime in September. Forgot this timeframe.

    IMO: Thread complete (although I'm no moderator!)
    Seeya! :)
     

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    #11 slamm3r_911, May 21, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    unfortunately, we're not in charge of our own threads :whistle:
     
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  13. slamm3r_911

    slamm3r_911 Junior Member

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    Lol that's okay with me :)

    I forgot to mention I purchased a smorgasboard of module ages to rebuild the pack with 7.9+ voltages and guaranteed Ah capacities of at minimum 5 up to 5.5. I believe they're all gen 3 but might have gen 2's in there.
     
  14. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    ok, so here's your answer to the question about splitting the pack. Please don't take offense to it.

    If you think it makes any difference at all, you don't have the electrical knowledge to be working on the battery in the first place.

    When the main relays are open, there is zero current flow through the battery. When the safety disconnect is removed, there is zero current flow through the battery. Bad modules drain via internal self discharge, not external discharge.

    How in the world do you think a "bad" module is going to make a good module into a bad one? That doesn't happen. A "bad" module is BAD because it has internal discharge problems or a very high internal resistance. A good module is unaffected by any other module, because they're connected in series. Do you understand why a series connection will cause no problems, as opposed to a parallel connection, which would cause problems?

    You've replaced almost every module in the pack, because your "testing" might as well be guessing. You would have been better off just letting the battery sit for a few days and then just replace whichever modules dropped below 7.2 volts. Right now, you're just pissing away time and money.
     
    #14 TMR-JWAP, May 21, 2019
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  15. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I tried to go through this thread and provide some help, but just had to give up and delete everything I wrote.

    Actually, my recommendation to anyone looking for information on rebuilding a battery pack is that they should just stop reading somewhere in post #1. I thought I could actually get through this and provide input to help you, but this is so far out in left field I want to give up already. I don't have time to put information after every single sentence.
     
    #15 TMR-JWAP, May 21, 2019
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  16. slamm3r_911

    slamm3r_911 Junior Member

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    I'm sorry to hear that, TMR.

    I consider myself a student of life and electrical theory has been a dabbling of mine rather than a field of intensive study or a 'forte.' Obviously.
    And obviously there are people of the opinion that I ought not to have my hands inside a battery casing. Point taken (I'm hardly offended and actually thankful). That said, battery technology (in contrast to general electrical principles) has, personally, seemed slightly elusive in terms of concrete answers. I understand some of the basics but I don't claim to know many of them. My first rebuild was more successful and lasted me much longer with a matching of poorly performing modules along with stated to be good modules that shouldn't have happened. But it somehow lasted me 6 months and over 2000 miles.
    This last go-round was terrible and I already knew my testing method was probably inadequate and improper but I did it anyway. Oops.
    Right now, I have a pack with 90% good modules that may or may not be paired appropriately. I don't see that as a waste of money though I've used up quite a bit of time...... But I had to learn somehow if I was going to have any chance of being any good at this, and I personally learn by doing. There is also the possibility that I'm completely wrong about the nature of the modules I posses, too.

    I did not open this thread to ask for advice on how to rebuild my pack
    , and didn't intend it to be a guide at all although I graciously appreciate the input that I'm way off on my method and ought to school myself before touching the car again.
    I also didn't even open this thread to document how I rebuilt my pack, so perhaps I've taken it off the deep end (in left field).
    I apologize for that.
    I wouldn't say that my write up in post #11 is anything other than a documentation of my experience and what I did to get to where I am now.
    Post 11 is very likely is riddled with mistakes, should not be used as a guide, and simply fails in general terms.

    So yes, let's have folks looks elsewhere for advice where people of knowledge and legitimate expertise exist, perhaps to the threads on Priuschat that inspired me to take the courses of action that I have with my own pack, painfully and erroneously documented above.



    On another note, thank you for directly addressing my original question! What you've explained makes sense to me, though I believe I must do my due diligence and possibly ask some clarifying questions in the coming weeks once I've had time to fully comprehend what you've said, TMR. You've pointed out series connections vs. parallel connections will act differently in this or any setting.
    I do already know some principles regarding these differences though not close to everything. I understand that there is no current flowing through unless under load, so no way for the modules to effectively act against each other.

    One immediate hypotehtical question I do have is this: What if a module has a failed cell and the voltage of that module is drastically lower than the rest, to the tune of up to a few volts? Does this do absolutely nothing to the state of charge of the pack, and in this instance it would not matter if pack was "split" or "joined", correct? Do the modules want to match each other at all or do they act in total isolation unless there is current flowing through to 'hold them' together?
    I assume the disconnect is there for safety purposes alone, and shouldn't be looked at as much more than that.



    I do feel a bit wet behind the ears in the presence of all you folk who have been on this site for long periods of time, for good reason as TMR-JWAP suggests.
    Thanks for your time anyone who has read and thank you to the senior members contributing their time.
     
    bisco likes this.
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    there are some decent rebuilding threads here. i'm not sure why people say there aren't.
     
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