Study Ideas - Battery Degradation

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by markabele, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Maybe increased frugality levels, too?

    I used Ken's as a base for my own that I've added some columns to for comparing to other cars. Enlightening!!

    OK!! All charged up. Here I go.
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, there might have been some youthful exuberance. after all, i was only 57 when i got her.:cool:
     
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  3. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    OK, I'm back from my "baseline" run. It was way more sedate than the usual commute, but still not ideal.

    I started with a predicted 12.8 miles of EV range, the most I think I've ever seen thanks to some short, non-highway trips the past couple days.
    Temperature ranged from 78-80°F.
    I finished a block from home at the same elevation.
    I drove with the windows down enough to let in some air and ran the vent fan on 2. No A/C.
    Speed limits were mostly 35 with a little 25 and a short burst of 45.
    Lots of stops. But that's Tampa. :mad:
    Roads were wet but I only hit a couple puddles and there was no standing water other than those two puddles.
    Terrain was flattish with quite a few 10-25 foot "hills."

    Engine came on at 14.3 miles. Average speed was 19 mph, which is a higher average speed than my work commute even though I never drove nearly as fast as I do on the commute.

    I expected better since I was using every trick I know and there was very little "push" from traffic. But there were a LOT of stops. That couldn't have helped.

    We'll see what it takes to charge it in the morning.
     
    #43 jerrymildred, Jul 1, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
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  4. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Thanks for doing this, Jerry!

    That is about what I'd expect from my 2013 under those circumstances. Maybe my battery isn't much worse than any other 2013.
     
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    wet roads can hurt. i suspect we're all in the same boat. degradation starts fast, and slows after the first year or so.
    the only question, why mark and jerry charge amounts so far apart?
     
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  6. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Maybe he needs to try a ChargePoint as well. Any free ones close to you at all, Jerry?
     
  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Sorry. None that I know of. There is free charging at Tampa International Airport, but I've only been there to use it twice since I got this car. And I don't remember it having a meter since it's free. This part of the country seems to be pretty oblivious to plug-ins even though I see a Tesla or two almost every day.

    I am considering a new Killawatt, though. Yesterday, before my test run, the display went blank. I thought maybe it was dead, but the power indicator on my EVSE was still lit. I unplugged the Killawatt, plugged it back in, and the display came back. But of course it read 0.00 kWh. We had had a huge lightning strike nearby earlier in the day, so it may have been a voltage spike.
     
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  8. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I need to find my killawatt and test using that as well.
     
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  9. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    I am late to the party, took a vacation:)
    Subject was also discussed in "PIP EV falloff" thread. My experience over 3.5 years up to Jan 2017 and 42000 km (27500 of them - EV) was summarized in:
    PIP EV range falloff | Page 7 | PriusChat
     
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  10. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Anyone out there have a "empty" to "full" ChargePoint readout when their car was fairly new?

    Looking back through my ChargePoint history, 2.58 kWh was the most I've ever put in the car at one time. I have no idea if that was "empty" to "full" though. That was back a little over a year ago.

    Back on June 25th of 2013 it looks like I put 2.53 kWh in. Guessing that was somewhat "empty" before I plugged.

    My point is...not sure ChargePoint ever would have read out above 3.0 kWh even in a new pack. That may change our perspective substantially.
     
  11. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I remember seeing that. Nice chart.

    By the way, after charging this morning, the Killawatt said it took 3.40 kWh.
     
    #51 jerrymildred, Jul 2, 2017
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  12. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Is Charge Point level 2?
    I have started measuring 'payable charge' i.e. from wall in late 2013 when car was about 3-4 months new and got (at 230V line) 2.95-3.0 kWh to full at that time, when 'starting point' was 6 bars on the HV battery icon.
     
    #52 giora, Jul 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  13. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Good point. I think it is L2, so there is a little less overhead power wasted. Not sure how much.
     
  14. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Yes, level 2.
    However, there may be something else at play that we don't know about. Will hopefully have more answers when I find my killawatt meter.
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    mark, in giro's link above, you stated that feel you have lost about 65% of capacity since new. do you still feel that way?
     
  16. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    2.44/3.4=71.8% so the 65% estimate maybe was a little off.
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and yet, you still get close to the same ev miles as jerry and me.
     
  18. SlidingBike

    SlidingBike Member

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    my PiP (2013 model) , always charges 2.74 KwH, I bought it a month back, used.
     
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  19. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    The 3.4 kWh was probably with L1 charger and the 2.44 kWh with L2, plus starting SOC plays a roll as well as temperature.
    I wouldn't jump into conclusion based on only two inconsistent measurements.
     
    #59 giora, Jul 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
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  20. Neohippy

    Neohippy Active Member

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    The best I have gotten was 12.5 miles and that was a maximum speed of 45mph. Now that I'm running my A/C full time I'm getting about 8 miles range. I have noticed temperature plays a huge roll also in battery range
     
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