Stumbled on some ethanol-free gas??

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by Mendel Leisk, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    My concern is that it burns cleaner with less contaminate blow-by product so you can drive into the ground. Will put another engine if need to be, not reselling.
     
  2. litesong

    litesong Member

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    "ethanol in gasoline industry" promoters always mention 3% loss in MPG by only adding 10% ethanol to 87 octane gasoline(E10). So, "ethanol in gasoline industry" promoters do believe their products are inferior. However, my last five 87 octane designed gasoline vehicles had 8%, 8%, 7%-8%, 7% & 5% ethanol-free (E0) gains in MPG, compared to 87 octane designated E10. These gains are easy to understand, since 114 octane ethanol can NOT be burned effectively (only used) in 87 octane designed gasoline engines. Ethanol misses much of the power stroke in 87 octane gasoline engines. Only ethanol engines with compression ratios of 15:1 were designed to burn ethanol properly. Also, 114 octane ethanol must be mixed with 84 octane gasoline to create a designated 87 octane fuel blend. Yes, none of the fuel components in 87 octane designated E10 is actually 87 octane. What is also easy to understand, is the "ethanol in gasoline industry" pays & lobbies EPA & gov't to penalize the production of E0, to keep E0 priced higher than E10. Most people in tune with their gasoline engines note that E10 is inferior to E0, as I already & readily noted while passing over 4000+foot mountain passes & in stop&go traffic.
     
    #22 litesong, Feb 6, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
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  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Everyone agrees that it has lower energy density. Don't turn that into a smear by insinuating other negative meanings of 'inferior'.
    Other agencies' tests with different sampling of engines came far closer to the theoretical energy density difference.

    Did your tests control for seasonal and other differences in energy density separate from raw E10 / E0 differences? The blends available here in the Puget Sound region vary seasonally, in at least three steps.

    I also am skeptical of personal tests by those with an ax to grind, as it is so easy for the right foot to skew the results. It is better to have a single-blind test where the driver doesn't know what fuel is being used. Or better still, a computer running a dyno test.
    Neither are the components in 87-octane-rated E0 actually 87 octane.

    Both fuels are a blend of many different components, each with very disparate octane numbers.
    So sorry that you haven't traveled much beyond Stevens Pass here in Washington State. Head east a little ways, and there are oodles of beautiful passes and mountain roads to travel to 10,000+ feet, a few even exceeding 14,000 feet. Though I believe my personal highest driving elevation was about 13,000. And in the past month, just 11,306 feet.
     
    #23 fuzzy1, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Is it clean enough to avoid the clogged EGR problems and headgasket failures of the Gen3? I thought those were an oil issue, not a fuel issue, thus the commonly suggested oil catch cans.
     
  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Update: No, that wasn't it. His station is across the freeway, and selling (apparently unbranded?) ethanol-free 87 octane for $3.39/gal today, vs unbranded E10 twelve minutes away in Cle Elum for $2.27-29/gal. Safeway (which uses Shell in my district, but I'm not sure if that extends to Cle Elum) E10 was $2.33, and the branded majors at $2.79-89.

    I.e. the price premium was even larger than I thought.

    The mid and higher ethonal-free grades were $3.69 and 3.99 respectively. Probably good for seasonal tools and toys, such as for boating on the several adjacent lakes, but overpriced for general automotive use.
     
    #25 fuzzy1, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  6. litesong

    litesong Member

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    "fuzzy wuzzy" uses "ethanol in gasoline industry" fuzzy wuzzy data. 3% energy loss isn't the only ethanol loss in 87 octane designed gasoline engines. 114 octane ethanol misses much of the power stroke of 87 octane designed gasoline engines. The "ethanol in gasoline industry" seldom mentions the totally mis-matched 114 octane ethanol in 87 octane gasoline engines...... & "fuzzy wuzzy" tags along. To obtain the 87 octane designated 10% ethanol blend, 114 octane ethanol MUST be mixed with 84 octane gasoline(a gasoline also mis-matched to 87 octane designed gasoline engines). 87 octane ethanol-free gasoline(E0) IS 87 octane gasoline.
    "fuzzy wuzzy" grinds his teeth, not his ax, which is dull all along its edge.
    Both my car & my motorcycle has been to altitudes of 14,000+ feet, & have done such since 1974. "fuzzy wuzzy" supports inferior 114 octane ethanol in 87 octane designed gasoline engines, & supports the lies of the "ethanol in gasoline industry".
     
    #26 litesong, Feb 10, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  7. litesong

    litesong Member

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    "fuzzy wuzzy" continues his fuzzy wuzzy ways. My general ethanol-free gasoline(E0) source is under $3 per gallon, whereas low E10 sources in the area, are $2.65 & even as high as $3.15 per gallon.
     
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Not when I drove by the station you specifically mentioned:
    That is:
    > Easton UNBRANDED 87 90 92 Hitching Post 509-656-0160 1751 Railroad St

    Thursday morning, it was $3.399/gal for 87, and much more for the higher grades.
     
    #28 fuzzy1, Feb 10, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    More bait and switch. You wrote:
    The reality is, even E0 is a mixture of many components with very different octane ratings, some very low, some even higher than ethanol. E10 is made from a base 84 octane using the exact same components as 87 octane (and all other automotive octanes), but in somewhat different proportions.
    Litesong loves to be the insulting jerk who puts words into someone else's mouth, and commits other assholery in twisting their statements beyond recognition.
     
  10. litesong

    litesong Member

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    Yes, I specifically mentioned Easton. I don't live near Easton, & get my sub-$3 E0 at another source. I love how "fuzzy wuzzy" can't figure this out...all by his self 'um! Now that "don'T rump" is allowing more ethanol in gasoline, I hope the "ethanol in gasoline industry" lobbies so E20, E30, E40 is the "regular" fuel for America. The courts already have judged cases where ethanol was "accidentally" blended to E20 & even as high as E65, sold as E10 & hurt & killed some cars.
    Ha ha ha.....I know where to get E0.
    "fuzzy wuzzy" wants people using (but not burning efficiently) E15, E20, E40, more?
     
    #30 litesong, Feb 10, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  11. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Q.E.D.
     
  12. litesong

    litesong Member

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    The "ethanol in gasoline industry" started their pump at 2%, then to 5%. Now they have a solid 10%. As stated, court cases have indicated that "accidental" blendings to E20 & as high as E65 were caused. Yes, E15, E20, E30, E40(higher?) is ahead.
     
  13. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    And like any good troll, you are blaming me for all of it.
     
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