SUA - Here we go again

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by qbee42, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,050
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Full document:

    Experts: Translated Toyota memo shows electronic acceleration concern - CNN.com

    Tom
     
  2. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    4,003
    936
    118
    Location:
    Los Angeles Foothills
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    J.F.A.C. lets all read different interpretations into this document. The car was DELIBERATLY fooled into acting wonky, so it did! We should be surprised? If you got a TASER dart in the butt, you would suddenly accelerate too!
     
  3. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,050
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    My take exactly. The memo in question describes engineering testing, which was designed deliberately to find unlikely scenarios. The memo should bolster confidence, but what do you want to bet that the press treats it like a conspiracy?

    Tom
     
  4. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,814
    2,480
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Here at work, we test things to failure and intentionally make them misbehave all the time.
    I have no doubt that if our competitors got ahold of our procedures and documents they would go screaming to our customers that our products can fail and misbehave.
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    12,961
    3,608
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Its a good thing to do. It appears from the memo, that they simulated a sensor failure and found a bug. Now in Toyota's response they say they did a "adjustment and refinement" to correct this before production. I'm sure that they should have other documentation to say this happened. We always formally tracked these things. They may not want to give such documentation to CNN, since, well the media can blow up anything.

    I would like to know if they did fix it. Toyota says the correct translation of the problem is "creep" not acceleration, and if that was the defect it hardly made the cars unsafe.
     
  6. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    1,218
    488
    27
    Location:
    Morgantown, WV
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    This was 1 of 3 anti Toyota anti Prius family reports CNN has posted since the Plugin and C models started arriving. Today's is a playground whine about the V on CNN Money. The other is a pro Volt piece with numerous unsubstantiated claims and incomplete data. (mpg in cs mode is?)
     
  7. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    4,003
    936
    118
    Location:
    Los Angeles Foothills
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    :D
    Tony, I took the time to look at your milage chart, and it is quite impressive. You can certainly see the yearly seasonal dips when winter rolls into the midwest. From what I recall you are pretty much a "Flatlander", not many hills to climb. Those 60 and 70 numbers are quite impressive.
    I sure wish I did not have SR-2 to climb everyday on the homeward leg of the work routine. If I ever break 50 I will be amazed. My best was a 49.something, once, and never again duplicated! I usually run 44 in winter 48 in summer. That still beats the 4Runner all to hell!

    Keep it up, you have set goals that I can only try to come close to, but you have proved it can be done! :D
     
  8. wwest40

    wwest40 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    518
    13
    0
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    Vehicle:
    2003 Prius
    Model:
    I
    So, how many software "bugs" have they not found....??!!
     
  9. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,300
    6,693
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    I always told my bosses "So far as we are aware, we have no undetectable errors"
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    4,003
    936
    118
    Location:
    Los Angeles Foothills
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Now that we have them just where they want us, lets move on!!!
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    93,193
    42,237
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    this seems politically motivated to me.
     
  12. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    9,083
    5,776
    0
    Location:
    Undisclosed Location
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    This is the second thread on this CNN report.

    Listen I'm not defending CNN, or condeming them.

    What bothers me most about this whole incident, isn't a debate over what the Toyota tests results actually "mean". It's the fact that evidently Toyota did testing at some level, had results that did manifest into adjustments and change...and that information was not forthcoming or shared with the NHTSA.

    If you have nothing to hide? Why are you hiding that information?

    CNN may or may NOT be spinning this in a sensational manner. Since I can't read Japanese I don't really know.
     
  13. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    3,156
    440
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Europe
    lol

    Why does Toyota test their vehicles if there are no problems? lol.
     
  14. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    3,156
    440
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Europe
    yes.. they tested pre-production product and improved it.
    I bet they do millions of these during course of product testing.

    Most important part here that this is not even production product and that car didnt even move... they just changed the level of sensitivity of the sensor and speed of reaction of radar sensor, from 0.5s to even less.... car again did not even move, warnings triggered.

    Which is irrelavant completely actually. It does not matter. This is preproduction testing.
    I am sure they had ACC not even work at all during first tests. Products dont get developed in the limbo, it is trial and error. Which is why tests are being done.

    And the product in question was never sold on any market in this form and was never sold on any Toyota/Lexus in USA.

    So what is the problem? That Toyota tests their parts before going into production?

    Or GM poor sales?

    I hope they sue CNN because they have real reason to do so.
     
  15. wwest40

    wwest40 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    518
    13
    0
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    Vehicle:
    2003 Prius
    Model:
    I
    The "telling" issue was that they added a specific test to yet another, a different model, to be sure it wasn't subject to the same "SUA" flaw. If the they were satisfied that the firmware was fixed for the initial product why not trust that fix for subsequent products...?
     
  16. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,050
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Are you suggesting that all Toyota products use the same firmware? That's not likely. A change in one product may be applied to another, but only with modifications and subsequent additional testing.

    Tom
     
  17. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    3,156
    440
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Europe
    there is no SUA... it is adaptive cruise control, it is supposed to accelerate on its own. It has nothing to do with SUA.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    9,083
    5,776
    0
    Location:
    Undisclosed Location
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    ???? That's not something I said. Of course all automotive manufacturers test their vehicles.

    The point is? Not all manufacturers are involved in huge NHTSA investigations...and not all manufacturers evidently have documents that seem to contradict statements they made about their own testing in the past.
     
  19. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    14,966
    8,372
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    The 'SUA' in their test, and the 'SUA' suffered by many US drivers, don't fit under the same definition of 'SUA'. One phrase is being used to describe different events, and CNN got confused by the shared words.
    Have you ever heard of Regression Testing?

    Don't trust. Verify. There is damn good historical reason for this.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. wwest40

    wwest40 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    518
    13
    0
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    Vehicle:
    2003 Prius
    Model:
    I
    "...That's not likely..."

    More likely than otherwise, a LOT more likely than otherwise.

    Assuming NipponDenso is the source (more likely than otherwise) for the core software then dozens of marques, even US marques, will be using the same "base" software.

    Who do you suppose writes, supplies the base/core source code, or at least specifies the software for all of the third party devices, climate control, transaxles, etc...??
     
Loading...