Suit says '13-mile' range for Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid was deceptive

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by devprius, Jul 29, 2016.

  1. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

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    Anybody else seen this?:

    Suit says '13-mile' range for Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid was deceptive

    "Filed earlier this month in Michigan federal court, the suit alleges Toyota misrepresented the Prius Plug-In's ability to achieve that range in real-world conditions, specifically colder-than-average climates.

    The suit was filed by Richard Rosenbaum, who bought a Prius Plug-In Hybrid in 2012 and is seeking to represent a class of affected Prius Plug-In Hybrid owners."

    and

    "The suit also suggests that the Prius Plug-In Hybrid will not operate in electric-only mode at all in temperatures below 55 degrees Fahrenheit."

    As an early adopter of the PiP I certainly don't feel deceived by Toyota. I knew the car wouldn't be able to achieve the 11 to 15 mile EV range because of the geography of where I lived (lots of hills in my area). I know we have a number of PiP owners on here who live in cold/snowy areas and they've reported 10+ miles of EV range even in the dead of winter.
     
  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I don't think Toyota was deceptive at all in regards to the capabilities of the PIP.
    The dealer that the car was bought from may have been misleading, but that is not unusual with dealers.

    The 13 mile number is also from the EPA, isn't it?
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yeah right, good luck to him. i thought the marooned said 6 and 11? and the o/m lists the 4 billion reasons why/when the ice might fire.
    he must have gotten a lemon, mine stays in ev mode well below freezing depending on the terrain.

    what's the last line re: 'a question whether prime can be locked into ev mode'. i haven't heard that.
     
  4. Pluggo

    Pluggo Senior Member

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    If anyone remembers the 1970s, we went through a stage when car makers first started advertising their MPG. A typical commercial might boast that the new Cadillac got something like 24 MPG at a constant 55 MPH with the A/C turned off. Of course in the real world that same car might deliver 11 MPG. The misleading commercials became so rampant that the government finally had to step in and design a standard fuel economy test that simulated a 'typical' driving circuit at a particular temperature. From then on, the manufacturers could only cite the official government results. Flash forward to today and we have Toyota saying one thing while the US provides a Plug-In Hybrid label that only adds confusion to the picture (see Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle Label | Fuel Economy and Environment Labels | US EPA). I am thinking that, maybe, that guy should be suing the EPA instead.
     
    #4 Pluggo, Jul 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2016
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  5. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    On a CMax forum, there was a new owner of a used 2013 who wanted to start a class action against Ford because he couldn't get the telematics functions synced to his phone.
     
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  6. Pluggo

    Pluggo Senior Member

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    When VW was still the undisputed king of fuel economy they responded to their competitors' questionable advertisements with this classic.
    VW.jpg
     
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  7. Yea Right

    Yea Right Active Member

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    I luv it
     
  8. Yea Right

    Yea Right Active Member

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    I'm with bisco ... This law suit is ridiculas.
     
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  9. gallde

    gallde Active Member

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    I feel his pain, living 9 miles from my workplace in hilly NY and having to play games with my 2012 PIP carefully avoiding too much accel or speed. I used to be able to barely make it to work, but after 4 years of use, I'm down to only 7 miles range and have to let the ICE take over in two spots on m y commute. Shouldn't my extended warranty cover range reduction?


     
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  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Well first off all, "blended range" was advertised as 11 miles, wasn't it? Where did he get 13 miles from? AER was 6 miles due to EPA's testing method but Toyota uses the blended 11 miles I believe.

    Also, he says he is aware of what is essentially "YMMV" but then feigns ignorance on the "it won't go into EV mode under 55°F'. I don't own a PiP so other PiP owners can chime in but even the regular Prius will go into EV mode below freezing so it stands to reason that there will be conditions that the PiP will go into EV mode below 55°F.
     
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  11. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    With the PiP using a relatively small part of the battery, range degradation should hardly be noticeable. Have you asked your dealer about it?
    Is that seven miles shown on the screen, or seven miles of driven range?
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm down between 5 and 10%, most of it after the first year. my meter used to go to 16.5 when new, now, 15.6 is the best i get to. and i can feel it in driving distance, but i have never done any strict testing.

    what makes me think this guy is a lawyer?
     
  13. Pluggo

    Pluggo Senior Member

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    Some members have mentioned that the EV system will tax itself trying to keep a bad 12v battery charged. This could be the case for any older 12v battery.
     
  14. DonDNH

    DonDNH Senior Member

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    It might be time for a thread of lawyer jokes. This guy sounds like one - a joke that is.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Lawsuit Claims Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid Isn’t Meeting 13 Mile Range

    A lawsuit by a Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid owner says that a “13-mile” battery power range is deceptive.


    Earlier this month, owner Richard Rosenbaum filed the suit in Michigan federal court claiming that the Prius Plug-In he purchased in 2012 has not been able to meet the 13-mile electric range that Toyota was advertising. Rosenblaum also said he wasn’t able to run on electric-only mode when the temperature dropped beyond a certain point. The Prius owner is seeking to represent a class of Prius Plug-In Hybrid owners.
    . . .

    Of course the obvious is a discussion of real-world range and operating conditions. I don't have a dog in that fight. But there is another disturbing trend since there has been another lawsuit closer to home: BMW i3 REx electric-car lawsuit: range-extender power loss alleged

    . . . now BMW is the target of a class-action lawsuit that alleges that the car can slow to speeds of 45 mph on highways, without warning, creating a safety hazard for drivers and passengers.

    Having received a lot of playful guff about my fuel exhaustion experiments, my first thoughts about this case was a variation of the 'run out of gas' comments. Now I'm beginning to think something else as I also reflect on the feeding frenzy around the cheat-diesels.

    There has been a lot of schadenfreude about VW's troubles primarily because they worked so hard to hide it even as the preliminary investigations began. When the early investigators work was revealed, the land sharks showed up and that took some of my joy away. Class action suits are sometimes necessary but other times it looks like piling on after the tackle ... unnecessarily roughness.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  16. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

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    The Monroney sticker clearly indicates 6 miles all electric and 11 miles electric plus gas range. I don't see how Toyota was being deceptive and I don't see how he can win this case.
     
  17. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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  18. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Does the guy want 20-ft3 cargo space or 11-ft3?
    If the answer is 11, get the man a Volt. How much is he asking for the PiP?
     
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The i3 REx lawsuit should at the very least also name CARB as a co-defendent.
     
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  20. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    I've been back to my summertime high of 12.6. Nothing out of the ordinary. From the OBD II data still getting nominal battery voltages and SOC has stayed relatively stable at about 85%. Went up quite a bit since I started using the A/C for part of the trip and use preconditioning while plugged into my L2 EVSE. You might be in one of those periods where cell balancing within the modules is taking place. You'd have to read multiple voltages from OBD II to determine if this is taking place.
     
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