Suit says '13-mile' range for Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid was deceptive

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by devprius, Jul 29, 2016.

  1. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    3,917
    2,525
    0
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    What does the phrase "Your Mileage May Vary" mean?

    But here's the problem: If you're taking a five to seven mile trip, and if the engine starts up for even an instant, IT WON'T SHUT OFF!! And you can't shut it off. And your trip mileage will be about 23 mpg.

    "We're such smart Toyota engineers, and we know what's best for you, so we're going to run the engine just to warm it up, whether it needs to or not, and there's nothing you can do about it." <-- Grrr!!! Jerks!!!

    So, yeah, sue away, sue their eyeballs out until they fix their software.
     
    #21 Rebound, Jul 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,073
    3,485
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    What's the guy asking for his "defective" PiP with 20-ft3 cargo space?
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    42,841
    14,319
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    See link by fotomoto above and continue discussion there.
     
  4. bfd

    bfd Plug-In Perpetuator

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    659
    171
    0
    Location:
    Close to SDSU in the Far Southwest Corner of Cali
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    How low will it go? I've barely cracked 10 miles estimated, and less than that in reality. In some situations this summer, I've barely gotten 8 EV miles (real miles) before it pops over into hybrid mode. Pretty sure this is only going to get worse, but that's not the crux of the lawsuit. I'd join if it went class-action.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,229
    43,179
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    you can shut the ice down by powering off and then on again.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,229
    43,179
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    my pip has been everything i expected. 6 miles ev, and 11 miles total ev miles with engine, i can beat that every time. maybe there are some defective ones.
     
    N.J.PRIUS likes this.
  7. N.J.PRIUS

    N.J.PRIUS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    137
    48
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    What is the saying: The only people that make money in a class action lawsuit is the lawyers.
     
  8. finman

    finman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    1,287
    108
    0
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    Vehicle:
    2014 Nissan LEAF
    You do know that is for emissions, right? Not a defect. But for our breathable air.

    and your engineering credentials include??

    got to burn a little gas to make an ICE run cleaner. warm up is still important in the Prius world. Go ahead tell me your previous gas-only cars smelled great during the 1st two minutes.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,229
    43,179
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
  10. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    3,917
    2,525
    0
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    But if I'm only driving 5-10 miles, I just burned gas for no reason.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,229
    43,179
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    you should get a pip, 5-10 miles all ev, no engine.(y)
     
  12. finman

    finman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    1,287
    108
    0
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    Vehicle:
    2014 Nissan LEAF
    It's possible you bought the wrong car. You want no gas? that's an EV. Hybrids burn gas. I would love a Prius that is an EV only. But Toyota lost that sale to my Leaf. And our PiP burns gas. Just less than most anything out there!
     
    Allannde likes this.
  13. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    3,917
    2,525
    0
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    If I buy a car with a 13 mile all-electric range, I should be able to drive 5 to 7 miles without gas, right?
     
  14. finman

    finman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    1,287
    108
    0
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    Vehicle:
    2014 Nissan LEAF
    no, read the owners manual... or heck, even the window sticker. Your Mileage May Vary. Not everyone's driving patterns/environments are the same.

    You want heat? Well, that comes from combustion in a Prius. In my Leaf, it comes from a electric heat pump. Just one example. gas versus electric.

    You want to get 0-60 MPH in 10 seconds? The Prius uses combustion and electrons to get you there. My Leaf uses just the latter. Just another example.

    Engineering is all about tradeoffs. Especially in a car! Want to be fast? Bigger engine. Want to be frugal? smaller engine. Simple examples, but it makes my point...i think.

    Want cleaner emissions? Can't have a cold engine, burn some gas to get to the cleaner cycle.

    Most of these issues are not issues in an EV.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,229
    43,179
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    pip only has 6 miles ev.
     
  16. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    979
    290
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    PiP might only be rated for 6 miles EV, but there are plenty of people on this board who get way more than that.

    A typical tank of gas for me is about ~400 miles and is about 50 MPG. 24 to 30 miles of that is EV, and the rest is HV. Those |400 miles are 4 round-trips to work, which is about 96 miles, the rest is running around at lunch, errands, etc. I can only charge at home. So, 24 to 30 miles / 4 charges = 6 to 7.5 miles of pure EV driving per charge. Which is inline with what the sticker says. I could improve that figure if I started manually switching in/out of EV mode and preserving as much EV charge for when it's more appropriate (relatively flat roads, modest acceleration, keeping it under 62 MPH). Which I used to do when I first got the car and was able to get higher EV miles.

    But then I made a realization. I'm gonna burn gas no matter on my commute. Might as well let the car decide when and where to use a particular energy source and how to blend them as needed. It's a lot smarter than me. I'd rather worry about getting to work in a timely and safe manner than to obsess about whether I was in EV or HV mode.
     
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    42,841
    14,319
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    I think you've touched on the difference between what the engineers at Toyota wanted and what the public expected.

    Because of the Volt, the public expected all PHEVs to function like an EV until the battery runs out then it becomes a hybrid. In the case of the Volt, it's a series-hybrid where the engine is the generator to charge the battery which then powers the electric motors and drives the wheel.

    In Toyota's engineers' world, they were targeting maximum efficiency when creating their PHEV. What they came up with for the PiP is the most efficient way to use gas and electric. Like you said in paragraph 2, just let the car decide when and where to use will help. Of course a human is smarter than the computer so you can still choose to hold charge until later and that sort of thing.

    The problem is that the market didn't want that. They wanted an EV driving experience like the Volt. That is more inefficient since the whole point of a Prius is to use the gas engine when IT is most efficient and use the battery when it is most INefficient to use the engine.

    But as any PiP owner knows, once you start the engine, the engine warm up cycle starts and there goes your EV driving experience. There's also the small part of the EPA driving test that dictates AER.



    So for the Prime, they've bit their tongue and did what the consumer wanted even though it's against the philosophy of Prius to be the most efficient it can be. However, the engineers were kind enough to offer us BOTH experiences. (Thank you!!). You can drive in EV mode like the Volt and use the 22 miles (which it can now achieve in the EPA tests because it locks out the engine). OR you can drive in EV AUTO mode which makes the Prime act like the PiP and alternate between gas and electric to get the most fuel efficient drive. I think this is a good compromise between consumer experience (you want that to be positive) and the engineers' goal of pushing the envelope for fuel efficiency.
     
    finman and bfd like this.
  18. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    3,917
    2,525
    0
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Riiiight.... but here's the thing: If I want to drive, say 5 miles, if I tap the accelerator just a tiny bit hard from a stoplight, the engine starts and it pretty much won't shut off until I arrive at my destination.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,229
    43,179
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i'm sorry, what's your point?

    you definitely got a lemon.
     
    #39 bisco, Aug 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2016
  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    42,841
    14,319
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    What? You OWN a PiP! You know that's how it works.
     
    Allannde likes this.
Loading...