Suitable substitutes for the Toyota ATF-WS transmission or transaxle fluid?

If the charts are there, and detailed, then I'm guessing a chemical engineer can sort it, ie ones at Ashland. I wonder, does Toyota have a refinery, and produces it's own ATF? So that it is the only one that has it's formula...

Toyota oil only? I'd take Mobil 1 over Toyota brand any day. Toyota's responsibility is 5 yrs powertrain warranty. Mobil would take over from there as another example.

Someone is claiming they use the Valvoline in their own car. I wouldn't do that if I didn't do my own research. Of course there is a concern someone isn't telling the truth. But if it is true, and the person is kind enough to share the experience, and back it up, I'm going to read it....

I'm going to actually go ahead and not change the fluid as Toyota says so. (I'll verify that there is no change interval in the maintenance manual). We trust Toyota don't we?....

 

But I'll also be honest. Right now our Prius v has under 16k miles. It may take the rest of my lifetime to reach 200k or the likes....


So right now we are concerned about solvation, the dissolving of the insulation which results in exposing metal which then causes a short. There are a couple rules I learned about this in chemistry. (No, I'm not a chemical engineer. I wish I could handle chemical engineering)! There is one rule that states like desolves like. So following this, the insulation dissolves into the ATF, and since it is like the insulation on the windings, it will aid in the process of dissolving it more. But then there is another "dissolving force" at work. One that states that there is a maximum amount of insulation that will dissolve in the ATF before it precipitates out of the solution, basically the ATF will become saturated with insulator and no longer absorbs/dissolves any more. So Toyota says don't change it. I will follow. Because if I pull the insulator out of solution by replacing it with fresh ATF, I thereby decrease insulator concentration to 0. I will start again pulling more insulator into my fresh ATF....

 

Be honest jzchen...you're probably never going to flush your brake fluid or exchange your antifreeze either...for any reason.

 

If it doesn't say to in any interval, I won't. I have an '04 Sienna with the original for both. It isn't the first nor the last time I've seen this. Our '08 E90 BMW says don't change the coolant UNLESS the system is opened, ie. component replacement. I'm following that as well. But that one may take me two lifetimes before I reach significant mileage.

So has there been a case where the fluid wasn't changed, AND because of this a CVT failure? (I'm honestly not around here enough to know if this has happened):

"My tranny broke, and it was because I didn't heed PriusChat warning to change the fluid at x miles...."

 

Rocketboy235 has 230000 miles, and has tranny trouble because the fluid is definitely too old and worn out now????

 

I'm sure there is at least one other person out there that follows "If it ain't broke, why fix it"? I highly doubt I'm the only one....

 

There's a few under the radar services.

One, and this is actually stipulated by Toyota USA, but apparently ignored by a lot of US dealership and owners, is the 3 year of 30K mile extensive brake inspection. Not the the glance over during every tire rotation: an in-depth, pull the calipers off, lube the pins and so on. Toyota Canada btw says 32K km's or bi-yearly. Not just for Prius, for the entire Toyota line.

Two, brake fluid replacement. Honda has recommended this, tri-yearly, regardless of miles, for decades. Toyota Canada now recomends this, tri-yearly or 48K km's. Toyota USA says...: nothing. Oh, but keep checking driver's floor mat.

Three, the transaxle fluid replacement. Toyota USA, Toyota Canada, they're all in unison on this one: never needs changing. Ever. Up to you, but I figure it's dead-easy, under $50 DIY, do it. Sooner than later.

 

@jzchen Foremost...and as always...it's your car, your call. Most people just buy a new vehicle when they start breaking anyway.

 

Brake fluid: Toyota never got sued because a car did not stop due to brake failure. It did get in trouble for unintended acceleration, of which floor mats are part of the concern. I have not looked at the instructions when one replaces a caliper. If it notes upon replacement to flush/change, I would do so. On the BMW, I installed a Power Kit which added an extra coolant radiator, which opened the system. I then had the coolant flushed as instructed....

Two things could be happening:

Toyota engineer laughing on his/her way to the bank. "I told them they didn't need to change the tranny fluid, but they didn't listen to me." Pocketing the money from the WS fluid sales.

Toyota engineer laughing on the way to the bank. "I told them they didn't have to change the tranny fluid, and they actually listened to me". Pocketing the money for replacement transmission due to WS failure.

I just asked if there was/were incidents where failure was due to not changing the fluid. All I got was argument to change it....

Yes, it is each our own, and since as I note I don't get many miles, still less than 16k, it will probably be a questionable concern after I'm already dead...

 

There are rare instances of transaxle failure here on Priuschat, mostly M/G failure. So few owners change the ATF, it is not statistically relevant that no owner who did, has had a failure.

It is also completely true that my Prius acts as a Tiger deterrent, I have not been attacked since I got it. (Or before)

 

Just a couple thoughts that came to my mind:

Toyota notes to only use Toyota WS fluid because it's lawyers advised so. They can not control the quality of outside sources, so are protecting themselves, legally.

The compatibility list on the Valvoline Max Life label is extensive. That leads me to believe that the standards believed to be met by Ashland are not as rigorous as we worry.

As a point to compare: BMW LL-01 5W-30 is/was practically impossible to find outside the dealer. I called Ashland to confirm that I couldn't use their SynPower 5W-30 in the past, because the MST/HST formula only came in giant drums back maybe around 2012. This is probably why BMW has consistently kept it's "free" maintenance program, because if there is only one source of a product needed to keep your warranty Magnusson-Moss requires a company to give it free.....

Thank you JimboPalmer for the statistical analysis, and the tiger point. (I wish I get 100k miles a year, then I could be the guinea pig to contribute to this forum)....

 

Rumor has it that Toyota Branded 0W-20 motor oil and Toyota Branded oil filters never need changing in Prii either. If you just add oil as required the viscosity is returned to new...and I have never heard of an oil filter clogging on this or any other "forum"...ever.

You should never rotate my tires either. It's easier, cheaper, and I think safer, to buy them two at a time instead of all four. That way you always have 2 good tires instead of 4 bad ones....and I have never heard of a Prius needing wheel balance or alignment...ever.

My last Prius lasted lasted over 500,000 miles using this and your guide and never needed so much as a light bulb...plus it got 70 mpg lifetime. I did the "pulse and glide" everywhere and always drove below the speed limit. People are sincerely friendly my part of the country.

I think you're right jzchen, if that handbook in my glove-box doesn't say change or service something...it must be that the Engineers are telling us we never need to do it. It's all just a big conspiracy to get us to buy un-needed services from greedy Dealerships.

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For those just tuning in...this is me doing subtle.

 

Handbook says to change the oil. I never said not to follow the handbook. I follow it to a T. Please don't put that I recommended NOT to follow the oil change or rotation interval when I didn't. (Don't waste our time!) Why didn't they just say, yes, please have the tranny fluid changed at every 100k miles along with the spark plugs. (I can't think of any possible good reason they would be prohibited from saying something like this). Unless they believe it is not necessary to change. I'll respect an engineering decision like that, having studied HARD trying to become one myself, and failing....

 

While you may see no relevance...have you also noticed there is no maintenance scheduled after 120,000 miles or 144 months either. So following said manual/s in the glove-box to a T, would that mean no more maintenance after that point? Does this imply end of the vehicles serviceable life? Or perhaps...just maybe..."The Engineers" want us to buy a new one after that point? Humm.

I do see your point being part of the gas-n-go generation...and respect your choice...correct or not. Like I said, your vehicle, your call...but we will have to agree to disagree on this. Based on your profile picture, it's very likely I've been turning a wrench for a living longer than you are old, for sure longer than you've been driving...so I'll leave it there.

 

Changed WS at 160k
Talk about nasty stinky burned up fluid. Cooling and lubricating MG1&2 plus rest of the gearing really takes a toll on the WS, transaxle has gears and wearing like any other part of cars. Theyre Turning at thousands of RPMs and need fluid with cooling and lubricating properties. It's the right thing to do! Like the adding of an OCC,cleaning EGR COOLER! Once you dive in, youll understand!

 

I believe you just continue the patterns already established. Most services have repeated. If Toyota USA would show a graph format it'd be a lot easier to grok.

 

Wow, last time I saw advice for an OCC was in the E90Post forums, in particular when increasing boost on the N54 engine...

 

How about going the opposite direction, the best ATF? My ATF will need to drain, anyone replaced it with Mobile 1 ATF? Might be headed that direction, Mobile 1 has done me right for many years. Any thoughts, please chime in thanks.

 

Consider this: Toyota says only use Genuine Toyota ATF-WS, or risk damage to the transaxle?