1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Suitable substitutes for the Toyota ATF-WS transmission or transaxle fluid?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Rocketboy235, Aug 27, 2017.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,467
    38,101
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Still for me, I'm gonna stay with Toyota ATF WS, just in case. Then again, our local price for the Toyota fluid is very reasonable.
     
    padroo and Fred_H like this.
  2. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    in my trans almost 11 years now. Have replaced it 3 times over the last 11 years. The last time It was changed it had almost 40000 miles on it and it looked brand new so if you get that first change done And get that initial break in fluid out your probably good for the life of the trans, it’s a very low wear trans from what I’m seeing, low wear with D6 at least in it.
    Have used Redline exclusely in all my cars trans and diffs for over 35 years and none have ever seen a trans shop.
     
    j12piprius and Fred_H like this.
  3. Fred_H

    Fred_H Misoversimplifier

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    546
    473
    26
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Updated summary of alternative ATFs used by people in this thread, so far:

    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3 Column 4
    0 Member Name ATF Brand Type Total Distance with Alternative Brand ATF
    1 danlatu Valvoline MaxLife ?
    2 Fred_H Ravenol T-WS Lifetime 148000 km (91000 mi.)
    3 edthefox5 Redline D6 40000 mi. + ?
    4 tvpierce Aisin WS ?
    5 TheChip Redline D6 30000 mi.
    6 4md Yacco ATF X FE ?
    7 Simtronic Millers fully synthetic (? MILLERMATIC ATF SPIII-WS ?) (MILLERMATIC ATF D-VI ?) 50000 mi. + ?
    8 stanny101 Redline D6 ?
    9 mjoo Redline D6 8000 mi.


    @danlatu @Fred_H @edthefox5 @tvpierce @TheChip @4md @Simtronic @stanny101 @mjoo
    Would you like me to change or add anything? Or, you're welcome to DIY if you wish.
     
    #123 Fred_H, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
    Prieth, SFO and edthefox5 like this.
  4. danlatu

    danlatu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    533
    1,346
    2
    Location:
    maryland
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I have been using the Valvoline max life on both prius so far.
    2005 prius has been using it from 129k~205k (sold)
    2010 prius has been using it from 60k~117k current
    2011 prius has been using it from 297k~305k current

    I think the 3rd gen prius' cvt transmission is a bulletproof design. I know it is critical to use brand specific fluid types for transmissions with clutch pack/belt designs because of the friction modifiers. Using the wrong trans fluid can result in slipping or hard shifting resulting in shorter trans life.
     
    kerbear54, edthefox5 and Fred_H like this.
  5. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Yes put me down for 110,000 miles on D6 in my Prius. You know this conversation sends out some kind of bat signal that summons Mendel that will shake his finger at us all and say that’s not what the Manual says it uses and we are all going to die.....lol...
     
    Prieth, danlatu and Fred_H like this.
  6. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    They love that valvoline over at Bitog. Lots of Prius owners over there using it.
    It’s an excellent transmission. Incredible design. It would probably run on 3 in 1 oil. Lol...
     
    Fred_H likes this.
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,467
    38,101
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    No, I just find it puzzling. At least here, Toyota ATF WS is under $10 (can) a litre, and my Manual strongly cautions against using anything else.

    I believe 2nd gen Manual does say "or equivalent"? 3rd gen has no such proviso. Maybe the transaxles have changed? Or maybe they had problems?

    I just see no upside to being adventurous with something like this. Doubly so if you trade up and someone inherits your gamble.
     
    padroo and Fred_H like this.
  8. Simtronic

    Simtronic Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    290
    116
    1
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius PHV
    Model:
    Business Ed. Plus
    The Millermatic is fully synthetic and exceeds all WS specifications, I don't know if it is available elsewhere but it is well respected here in the UK
     
  9. Fred_H

    Fred_H Misoversimplifier

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    546
    473
    26
    Location:
    Germany
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Thanks everyone for your input!

    That's good. Mendel provides balance, and provides good arguments that readers should consider.

    When I was young and foolish I risked my life just for kicks. Now I'm old and foolish, and only risk the life of my transmission for kicks. Only a small improvement, but still... Then there's the scientist in me, that likes to experiment, and a tiny bit of rebel that doesn't like to follow the rules without knowing the reason.


    Updated summary of alternative ATFs used by people in this thread:
    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3 Column 4
    0 Member Name ATF Brand Type Total Distance with Alternative Brand ATF
    1 danlatu Valvoline MaxLife 76000 mi. (2005 Prius 129k~205k)
    2 danlatu Valvoline MaxLife 57000 mi. (2010 Prius 60k~117k)
    3 danlatu Valvoline MaxLife 8000 mi. (2011 Prius 297k~305k)
    4 Fred_H Ravenol T-WS Lifetime 91000 mi. (157k-248k)
    5 edthefox5 Redline D6 110000 mi.
    6 tvpierce Aisin WS ?
    7 TheChip Redline D6 30000 mi.
    8 4md Yacco ATF X FE ?
    9 Simtronic Millers Millermatic fully synthetic 50000 mi. + ?
    10 stanny101 Redline D6 ?
    11 mjoo Redline D6 8000 mi.
     
    m.wynn and Mendel Leisk like this.
  10. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    6,103
    4,032
    1
    Location:
    Wilkes Land
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    I'm for, and against the manual recommendations. If there's a history of substantial/handful transaxle failures due to using toyota WS, I would look for an alternative ATF but there's not enough failures yet so I'll stick to toyota WS. With engine oil, there's enough prius here with burning oil using toyota engine oil therefore I went with mobile 1 advance 0w-20.
     
  11. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    2,763
    2,250
    13
    Location:
    Chesterton, Indiana Another third world country.
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    I'm with Mendel on this one also. Four quarts of WS is cheap and easy to find, why reinvent the wheel?

    A lot of the times it isn't the transmission fluid, it's the total package Including additives.
     
  12. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Manual trans which is what the g2 trans is doesn’t need a package its just basicly what level of quality you desire in a GL4 lubricant. WS is not even a synthetic fluid. There are better products.
    And this is a car forum.
    No ones telling you to use it.

    The major package in WS is calcium for acid mitigation.Thats why it’s touted as a lifetime fluid.Calcium is also a wear agent. We all know what WS looks like at 100,000 miles on it.
     
  13. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    2,763
    2,250
    13
    Location:
    Chesterton, Indiana Another third world country.
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    The only way to tell if any lubricating oil whether it be engine oil, automatic transmission fluid or even gear oil is to take a sample and send it to a lab for testing. It's all in the science.

    https://m.blackstone-labs.com

    Your choice may be fine for you but I will stick with WS until I get burnt. Lol
     
  14. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Only way to tell what?
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,467
    38,101
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I agree with that, don't see what lab testing would do: what would you be looking for? (n)
     
    edthefox5 likes this.
  16. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Apparently something to do with science.
     
  17. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    2,763
    2,250
    13
    Location:
    Chesterton, Indiana Another third world country.
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Heavy industry and especially the aviation industry use spectral analysis to determine if say an aircraft engine is about to fail.
    By using this technology they can tell if an excess amount of say chrome is present. They know where chrome is used in an engine so they pull the engine before the bearings fail and prevent an accident. Large trucking companies use this process on their engine oils, transmission fluids and engine coolant for the same reason.


    All I am saying is that saying one oil is better than another and you like what you use go for it.
     
  18. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    As far as UOAs I have done 2 so far on the D6 in my trans. There over in the trans stickies. They show excellent wear numbers.

    Blackstone is a poor choice it omits the most important number in an UOA the TAN. You have to pay extra for it.

    I use Wearguard for UOA's as TAN is included for $25 but they got bought out by Lubeguard and i haven't used them since. But if your looking for exceptionally good wear numbers I have proof
    since you asked. But no mention of chrome....
     
    #138 edthefox5, Jan 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
    Prieth and SFO like this.
  19. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    1,743
    613
    0
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    I am reasonably concerned about what is in the transmission fluids. GL4 gear oil for instance is low sulfur. GL5 is high sulfur and would eat brass synchros found in some BMW's and Volvo's. I don't know enough about WS v LV auto trans fluids and how it interacts with our CVT. So I'm going to read: http://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/pdf/tech/Nov2015/Automatic_Transmission_Fluids.pdf

    Can you guys recommend any good resources to read from which have the authority to assert facts?
     
  20. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    1,743
    613
    0
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----