Summary of proposed improvements for future versions of Prius

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by CivicQc, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. Joe166

    Joe166 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2009
    720
    96
    0
    Location:
    South Florida
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    V
    Re: What's missing from the Prius?

    Can someone explain to me why the sound of a closing door proves or disproves the quality of a vehicle?

    Doesn't it just mean that we have been brainwashed into thinking that?

    PS I thought the lumbar control works just fine, (once I found it). Most of the rest is simply a matter of personal preferences, isn't it? I haven't fretted all that much about turn signals in the mirror, have a convertible to use when I want it and like my paint.
     
  2. chrisj428

    chrisj428 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    680
    144
    35
    Location:
    Vernon Hills, IL
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Re: What's missing from the Prius?

    I have to say that most of the concerns expressed above become moot when one examines (a) what someone is willing to pay, and (b) the vehicle's Prime Mission. If you want an optioned-out vehicle, Lexus makes that for you. The CT200h will address a lot of the comfort features, albeit at a higher price. But, you're not going to get them for free. The HS200h addresses a lot of the performance issues, albeit at a lower fuel economy. Again, that comes at a price as well.

    The old adage "You get what you pay for" comes to mind. And, having purchased a vehicle which stickered at just over $30k, I am reasonably happy with the equipment level. The rest, I can take care of aftermarket. Having purchased a vehicle which averages approximately 50 mpg, I am reasonably happy with the performance.

    Prior to the Prius, I owned a Phaeton. The Phaeton addressed just about every comfort issue you mentioned, every performance issue you mentioned and many of the amenities issues you mentioned (save for the convertible option). It was also a $76k vehicle which averaged 19 mpg on a good day.
     
  3. Nandros

    Nandros Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    44
    13
    0
    Location:
    Lechaio Corinth, Greece
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Re: What's missing from the Prius?

    My friend Pretext, can you tell me which car has ALL you are wishing for?? At what cost? Are you ready to pay? If yes, then you bought the wrong car.
     
  4. Teakwood

    Teakwood Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    491
    73
    0
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Re: What's missing from the Prius?

    The only thing I can agree on is:
    "7. A display option to see the oil pressure, voltage, temperature, it has a gas engine also"

    The bit about a convertible option is over the top.

    Qwitcherbellyaching.:bored:
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    5,131
    1,305
    0
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Re: What's missing from the Prius?

    I trust you researched this car and test drove one before purchasing.
     
  6. 26nm

    26nm IC Desgin Engineer

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    35
    3
    3
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Add a ipod touch place holder/Prius system interface on the dash board and provide Prius OS hooks and development kit for programming on iphone OS (you will have to work with Apple). Then we will have millions of programmers writing Prius apps for 99 cents (or free apps). Features like Nav, maps, voice control, driver face detection, lifetime mpg graph, Internal engine/motor reatime status, Angry Bird...... will be available < price of of Starbuck coffee.
    I is just me dreaming. Car company won't do it because they want to charge you $3000.00 for a Nav. package.
     
  7. Pretext

    Pretext New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    16
    1
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Re: What's missing from the Prius?

    Hi Pretext here, some good points, however, some of you reading this post are missing the point. This is my view of what is missing, I am sure you are happy with your Prius, as I am.

    In response,

    A more secure sounding door is a trait that Toyota began with to improve their quality back in the day, ever hear of LEAN?

    Lean manufacturing or lean production, often simply, "Lean," is a production practice that considers the expenditure of resources for any goal other than the creation of value for the end customer to be wasteful, and thus a target for elimination. Working from the perspective of the customer who consumes a product or service, "value" is defined as any action or process that a customer would be willing to pay for. Basically, lean is centered on preserving value with less work. Lean manufacturing is a generic process management philosophy derived mostly from the Toyota Production System (TPS) (hence the term Toyotism is also prevalent) and identified as "Lean" only in the 1990s. It is renowned for its focus on reduction of the original Toyota seven wastes to improve overall customer value, but there are varying perspectives on how this is best achieved. The steady growth of Toyota, from a small company to the world's largest automaker, has focused attention on how it has achieved this.

    When the imports started to come to USA the public wanted a car that sounded tight and solid, the Prius echos and is tinny, originally Toyota worked very hard to make their door sound similar to the American models they were in competition with.

    A good fit and a solid sound is a mark of quality. Last night I was sitting in the garage and leaned up against the Prius, I felt the door metal cave in, gee, what a sick feeling to think I might have dented the car simply by leaning on it, I only weigh 155 lbs.

    Many of the features listed are in a Mercedes, yes, for the same price I paid for the Prius. I actually traded in a another Mercedes for the Prius, and paid no sales tax.

    As for the price point, you need to understand the cost is in the design and if you build it with these items in the original platform, then you won't have the added cost as an afterthought and I would be willing to pay for it.

    Speed sensing brakes, apply more pressure to the brakes without increased pedal pressure as the speed increases.

    It's funny how some posters deflect the topic and look at the original poster as the issue. Hmm, yes I did research the car and I drove it, duh.

    I just think that this car would be better with the features and at no additional cost to me, isn't that what you want, more features for less money.

    Yea, a convertible, why not, I've had many convertibles also, I've owned over 30 cars so I know a little about what I like and don't like. Yea, and how about putting this eco combo in all platforms, vans, trucks, cars, motorcycles, RV's, boats, planes, you name it, if it runs on gas, it can run on a battery, right, isn't that the prime mission of this platform?

    I like the Prius but I think there is room for improvement.

    I guess some of the Prius chat members have never driven a Mercedes or Porsche, or any powerful car with rear wheel drive. Why can't I have a more powerful electric motor? Why can't the battery be more efficient?

    It's interesting that some Prius chat members also can't see other points of view and simply like to criticize the poster, whats a matter, did somebody kick sand on your Prius? :mad:

    When I drive the Prius, I've seen the worst drivers, it seems people try to be stupid around this car, I guess that is from the behavior of the original set of owners that have led to the public viewing this car as a ****.

    You see, if you've read this far, I really do like the car and want improvements.

    Why should I have to take my car to the stealer to have the backup beep changed or any other option, where is the Yankee ingenuity to get a power programmer that I can use that is like the Bosch scanner used for the OBDII interface. I want to change the power profile and tune it. You know, I don't think Toyota knows everything like some of you... :rolleyes:

    TTYL,

    Pretext - Noun: A reason given in justification of a course of action that is not the real reason.
     
  8. chrisj428

    chrisj428 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    680
    144
    35
    Location:
    Vernon Hills, IL
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Pretext,

    It amuses me how people automatically go on the defensive and in full attack mode the second they're questioned on an internet forum.

    Indeed, I have owned Mercedes, six Volkswagens, two Jeeps, two Subarus, a Saturn (a low point, to be sure), three FoMoCo vehicles, and now the Prius. Each had a purpose and my expectations were in line with said vehicle's purpose.

    "Why?" seems to be a catch-all these days. "Why did it break?" "Why can't I have more for less?" "Why doesn't anybody like me?" "Why is the sky blue?" What bakes my noodle is when someone asks a question such as "Why can't I have a more powerful electric motor?" or "Why can't the battery be more efficient?" and then get upset when they don't hear the answer they want.

    "Why can't I have a more powerful electric motor?" You can. But there will be trade-offs. It will have to be larger, which takes up more room, or it will have to be denser, which ends up being more expensive. Either way, it's going to weigh more. Certain immutable laws cannot be changed, regardless of how much we wish we could.

    "Why can't I have a more efficient battery?" Again, I say to you, "Yes, you can." However, it's going to cost more. The Chevy Volt has a more efficient battery. It's also priced about 35% more than the Prius.

    "Why can't the vehicle be a convertible?" It could, but it would be at the expense of fuel economy. One of the things which makes the Prius so fuel efficient is it's coefficient of drag. A cloth top would increase the drag, lowering the fuel efficiency. A hard top will increase weight, decreasing fuel efficiency. Nevermind the myriad of additional structural reinforcements along the windshield, firewall, rocker panels and frame rails required in order to create such a vehicle. This reinforcement would add easily 200-300 pounds to the vehicle, again reducing it's efficiency through increased weight. Making these out of titanium or some similar metal might reduce the weight, but would cost an astronomical amount to produce.

    In a perfect world, all this would be possible. However, as I said before, we're bound by the limits of nature, science and physics. Perhaps, one day, we'll be able to push these boundaries. But, for the time being, the reason you can't have these things is because they don't exist. I'd like a lot of things. But that doesn't mean it's reasonable for me to expect them.

    For example, when you said "I just think that this car would be better with the features and at no additional cost to me, isn't that what you want, more features for less money," my answer to you is "Yes, it would be." But, that's unrealistic. I'd like to eat as many potato chips as I want without gaining weight. Frito Lay figured out a way to do that in the '90s, but then everyone started crapping their pants. Guess what? When people had to choose between some more calories vs. soiling their shorts, calories won. Doesn't mean it can't be done later on, but there will be some other trade-off.

    We have a saying in my line of work: "Price, quality, speed: pick two". Nothing comes from nothing and everything has a balance -- you have to figure out what's important to you and base your decisions on that.

    When I bought my Prius, my priorities were ranked thusly:
    1) Comfort
    2) Price
    3) Features
    4) Economy
    5) Ecology

    If I wasn't comfortable in it, it didn't matter how much it cost or didn't cost. So, I started by looking at what I considered to be the most comfortable cars at my pricepoint. Then, I looked at which vehicle offered the most buttons, whilst still meeting the two prior conditions. The fact that it gets 50 mpg and is made from recycled plastics is just icing on the cake.

    My point is this, you have to set priorities. In the late '80s, Honda had a CRX-HF which averaged near enough the same fuel economy as the Prius as to not make a difference. It also weighed 1800 lbs. There was no ABS, no TRAC, no VSC, no leather, no power windows, no power locks, no air bags, no side impact protection, no sunroof, no automatic and no nav. However, all these things are in demand and Toyota has managed to find a way, 20 years later, to add all these things to a package which provides double the luxury, double the safety and double the seats. The Prius also weighs double the pounds. That safety, those seats and those features cost weight. Did I mention you're paying almost double the price? $30k today was worth about $16,700 back in '89. IIRC, the price of entry of a CRX-HF was in the $9,000 range.

    I find it extremely impressive that this car does what it does as well as it does for what it cost.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    40,688
    12,258
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    I'm probably in the minority here but I agree with Pretext WRT to the sound of a door closing. A nice soft thud is what I like to hear, not a tinny sounding one. I'll probably get flamed for this but a Gen 10 Corolla's door sounds a lot better than the Prius.



    Also, Pretext, with regards to the thinner body metal, it's mostly because they're using ultra high tensile steel which allows them to retain the same body strength as before while saving weight by making it thinner.
     
  10. CivicQc

    CivicQc The world needs more prius

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    233
    98
    6
    Location:
    Planet Carbon
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Add a button that would force the hybrid system to use more battery power (more assist) than normal, to progressively lower battery charge (down to 2 bars). That button would be used in anticipation of long downhill roads, to maximize battery power space for regen, and therefore minimize the use of engine brakes or friction brakes. That would improve fuel economy.
     
  11. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    8,245
    1,196
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Re: What's missing from the Prius?

    Toyota and Honda quality and reliability is still superior to American and definitely superior to German reliability (Audi, BMW, VW).

    Not many have Prius', any generation, that won't start, leaving them stranded. I'll bet that still happens more than it should in VWs.
     
  12. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    8,245
    1,196
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Re: What's missing from the Prius?

    Pretext, have you ever driven a 2nd Gen (04-09) Prius? If you do, I think you'll find a big improvement in the 3rd Gen over that one. Every credible reviewers says the same, although they say the changes are evolutionary, not revolutionary like the change from the 1st Gen to the 2nd Gen.

    As for your desire for more power and quicker acceleration, that is the enemy of high fuel economy.

    The Prius is a purpose built car - highest fuel economy, lowest emissions. It does that better than any gas powered car in US if not the world right now.

    Like another said, you would probably be happier in the upcoming Lexus CT200h or maybe a HS250h, or RX400h, but you'll pay more for them. There will be more choices in hybrid and plug-in cars, but it's taking time for them to come.
     
  13. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    8,245
    1,196
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I was sitting in a 2010 Prius again today at Fremont Toyota, actually in behind driver's seat, closed the door a couple times, it sounded very good and solid. I don't recall a hollow sound in the 2010. But I did notice the driver's door panel flexes in when you push on it. No biggie, I still like the car.
     
  14. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    8,245
    1,196
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I'm a little at odds on the wheels available on the new Prius, and the last time I looked, there didn't seem to be 'hybrid' types of wheels available on the aftermarket. Not to mention I wouldn't want to fork out for extra wheels and have to store the OEM's around the house anyway.

    I don't care much for the 15" wheels without the covers. On some of the colors, the 15's with covers look ok, but

    on Silver, the plastic wheel cover matches the body color and therefore, the wheel does not stand out, at least to me, at all.

    I don't know what the cost effective answer is, but I'd like to see an options for sharper shoes on the lower trims - a nice 16" hybrid wheel with LRR 205/55-16 tires. :D
     
  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    40,688
    12,258
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    The interior door panel flexes as well when you open/close the windows. I'm basing my standard on our 2002 Camry but if the new Corolla can match the Camry, then I'm sure the Prius can too. It sounds closer to our 2000 Corolla.
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    40,688
    12,258
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    Oh and I'm not sure if I mentioned this before but it would be nice if the "BRAKE!" wasn't displayed on the MID. The reason is that there have been several occasions where it beeped and the BRAKE! sign came on and because it was drawing my attention, I looked at the MID to see what the fuss was about instead of looking forward at the car in front. That split second look at the MID could be a problem. Most of this happened at low speed (I'm coasting to the car in front and the light turned green and the car in front is accelerating slowly out of the lights so the Prius thinks I'm gonna crash into it).


    I would propose a similar solution to Volvo and put a thin red light to illuminate the windshield ahead of the driver. This way, the flashing red light gets the attention of the driver and gets the driver to look at where he's supposed to (out the windshield) instead of at a small screen somewhere on the dash.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. guinness_fr

    guinness_fr Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    68
    13
    0
    Location:
    france
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Well In Europe the brake signal is displayed on the windshield, so I guess it's only an import problem.
     
  18. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    8,245
    1,196
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    ------------------------------

    I would like to see the steering wheel assembly improved in the next generation Prius so that it telescopes about 1" (2.54mm) closer to driver to match the 3rd gen's 2.5" further seat travel.

    The 2010 3rd generation Prius driver's seat slides and lowers about 2.5" further back than the 2nd gen's, but, the 3rd gen's steering wheel telescopes only 0.5" closer than the 2nd gen's non-telescoping wheel.

    Guess what? That other 1" of telescope range makes the wheel go closer to the dashboard (relative to brake pedal) than the 2nd gen's!

    --------------------------

    By measurement from brake pedal to very back of seat bottom, 2nd gen seat is about 41", 3rd gen's seat is 43.5"

    Brake pedal to bottom of wheel - 2nd gen's is 24.75", 3rd gen's is 25.25" full down and pulled out.

    Just for reference, Civic pedal to wheel about 26", while Camry and Accord are 26.5"

    I'd like to see the Prius max brake pedal to wheel distance increased to at about 26".

    -------------------------

    Of note - I think the steering wheel ought to tilt down just a little more. It's ok for me, but Camry wheels tilt down noticeably more.


    ** Wheel measurements mentioned before, just wanted to emphasize it versus seat travel.
     
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    40,688
    12,258
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    You mean the HUD? Cause we don't have the HUD as an option and Japan only has it as an option on their top model (G Touring w/ Leather)
     
  20. bagwell

    bagwell Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    580
    43
    0
    Location:
    the woodlands, tx
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    1. softer interior plastics for dash/console/doors
    2. as CIVICQC just said, a more effective EV button; current one is pretty useless.
    3. less squeaks and rattles, I think #1 would help with this.
    4. standard side mirror turn signals
     
    2 people like this.
Loading...