Survey: 89% of Leaf Owners Desire EV Range of Over 100 Miles

The Tesla example really only tells you that relatively rich people don't mind spending for the bigger batteries...or rich people don't want to admit they can only afford to buy the cheapest model.

Mike

 

So a wonderful opportunity has presented itself to you. Make the most of it.

 

I don't think that is a lesson learned. We do know that the tesla and volt have been more successful than the leaf and the prius phv. Its not because poor folk buy prius phv's and leafs. Its initial adpopters are the market for all of these things. We did not see people when the prius was first introduced buy it over an echo because it had a low price.

The 60 kwh tesla has a lot going for it over the leaf. Luxury, speed, handling. These are things initial adopters value. We shouldn't discount the 208 mile epa range though either. Is 200 the new magic number? i don't think we can read that either. People may not have bought the 40kwh version because it required a longer wait and didn't have the acceleration.

Telsa got there marketing right, because they were building the cars for themselves. It was what they wanted in a car, and correctly identified, that people like themselves would be willing to pay for the car if they got it right. The lower cost, lower range car would wait until more people were comfortable with the technology.

 

You have to be very careful drawing conclusions from surveys such as these. The respondents can interpret the questions in many different ways. For example:
"How much range would you accept?"
"How much range would you like to have?"
"How much range would you buy, at $5,000 for every 20 miles?"
...and so on.

 

But.... will the battery survive in 8 years without TMS? Current evidence says no. Nissan is playing with other battery chemistry instead of putting a TMS.

 

Normally when I read TMS, I think of Toyota Manufacturing System, and this is the normal usage for the initials when talking about cars. It is what gave toyota a big advantage in making high quality, low cost, small cars, but parts have been used by many manufacturers today.

If you mean the toyota bms (battery management system) as used in the prius phv, this is not really proper for a car like the leaf. The appropriate bms in a toyota is the one in the RAV4 BEV. This has been having problems, but I am confident that toyota/tesla will improve it.

Nissan may have a problem not with bms, but with the cooling of batteries as shown with premature loss of capacity in hot climates. This can be fixed with change of battery chemistry and/or liquid heating and cooling of the battery pack. The prius phv uses a different battery chemistry, the rav4 bev as well as tesla S and roadster, volt, focus ev all use liquid conditioning. You may note that one of the last hold outs for air cooling of an ice was porsche, but all modern porsches now have liquid cooling (radiators) as this allows them to get much higher performance out of an engine with lower mainenance. In a phev, companies may be able to get away with air cooling for a long time, as an ice can take the heavier load in hot conditions, but this may not be a good strategy for a 100+ mile battery pack.

 

TMS - Thermal Management System. Every EV has TMS except Nissan (nor the old Mini, which BMW now has on the ActiveE).

 

Much more understandable when you spell it out. The leaf uses air cooling for its thermal management of batteries, much like the prius phv. The bev rav4 uses liquid cooling. I think the appropriate bmw is the i3, which is also liquid cooled, and quite agree with you that air cooling is unlikely to be enough for some of the harsher climates such as mine (Texas). I actually am seeing more tesla S's here than leafs, and yes tesla now has a super charger in austin, at a location that some users might be able to just charge there every few days if they didn't have a plug at home;-)

 

BMW has a similar program to the MiniE, which is caledl the ActiveE, a 1 series EV, 500 units leased for 36 months. The i3 is mostly based off the ActiveE in powertrain.

Nissan stopped selling to "hot" states after initial complaints from early adopters. That is why there is not much Leafs in Texas. And testing with those few early adopters with their new battery packs.... which should be on Leaf 2.0. Hopefully, it works. But who knows long term if it works.

 

Survey: 89% of Leaf Owners Desire EV Range of Over 100 Miles


I'd like to know what the heck the other 11 percent were smoking.
Who wouldn't want more EV range in a $30,000 car?

 

I think it really boils down to if they would pay more for more range. 11% of mainly leaf drivers said no, the rest seemed to say they would pay more, but given the only company giving drivers much more is tesla (toyota rav4 is quite a different beast, and toyota's limited rav4 ev dealers, and marketing might turn off bev initial adopters.)

Form that survey, if you can get a 150 mile pack in a reasonable package, people will pay more for it. If nissan doesn't do it, someone else will, and if no one else does for a long enough time, tesla will be pumping the lower priced lower spec steel cars out. Blue star, when you get through with options and other costs, isn't going to be that car, but if no one fills the niche below blue star, tesla will.

 

I think that given the proper kick-backs the Leaf is a a good fit for some people.
I used to deride it as a DOT approved golf cart with climate control, but it's a little bit more than that and it's a good offering from the folks at Nissan that a 99-percennter could almost afford.

You're right about somebody filling the niche.
If there were a 150-mile Leaf for $10K less?
They probably couldn't build them fast enough.

Patience.
They'll be here soon enough.

How many people here have paid $2K for a computer?
How many would do it today?


*sigh* No....not you Mac weenies.

 

Classic!!!

 

In 11 years, nissan should be able to build a 150 mile leaf, for less than it costs to make a current leaf today, simply from battery improvements and volume manufacturing.

The question really is will they build it soon, and charge a small enough premium to get major sales. IMHO there is a market. Nissan pulled their infiniti version of the leaf, because lets face it, blue star would wipe it out, if it had less than 100 mile range. That infiniti car, with more luxury, acceleration, and double range, could be a hit. I'm with dipper, that car should have a liquid cooled battery pack to lower chances of premature range loss.