Synthetic Oil brings up Engine warning light ???

I've been using Amsoil 0W30 in our '04, changing every 10,000 miles, which is every 6 months for us. Amsoil says it is good for up to 35,000 miles between changes, but I'm not going that far. I am very happy with it.

PA P

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PA Prius @ Mar 4 2007, 03:46 PM) [snapback]399966[/snapback]</div>

Next 10,000 miles on the oil, send off a sample for analysis. That is the only way you can determine if your interval is appropriate or not.

 

remember that if doing a fair amount of low speed driving that close to 50% of that mileage is providing virtually no wear on the oil since the ICE is not running. so going 7500 miles is a no brainer. i would consider doing 10,000 miles in my situation because i dont have a high dust, sand, etc problem here. (mostly pollen... LOTS of pollen!!)

 

Well, I would have to say this is possible. After changing to synthetic oil I did have one time where my check engine light came on. This only occurred after I had to replace my two front tires, actually the day after I had them replaced. While I don't think it's because of the oil it was interesting that it did happen after I had to replace my tires.

Turned out to be nothing. Took it down to the dealership to get it checked out, but right when it was pulled into the garage the light went off. I would like to note that the day it occurred we had the lowest temperature of the year, under 20F, and that it hasn't occurred since then. Since it's only the first winter I had my car I'm not too sure about anything.

 

I think that if you search you will find several postings from Prius owners whose dealer actually RECOMMENDED that they switch to synthetic oil. Your dealer is sadly misinformed.

 

I fully intended to go synthetic from the beginning with my Prius, but when I inquired at the service desk about the change interval for synthetic, I was told me the warranty still requires oil changes every 8K KM regardless of oil type. (?) Their service policy is probably written this way so the service calendar does not get messed up. <_<

Anyway, rather than risk jeopardizing the warranty (unlikely, I know), I just decided I would use regular 5w30 oil for now and then switch to synthetic when I start changing my own oil after the basic warranty is up @ 60K KM... which based on my driving patterns, should be sometime around Christmas.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Mar 5 2007, 06:16 PM) [snapback]400590[/snapback]</div>

Jayman,

I must commend you for your work - it is quite scary what dealers can get away with without people knowing or proving any different.

Not that I am doubting your findings, but have you tested oil from different dealers in your area, or has it been primarily from the same place? Have you tested it more than once from the same dealer with consistent results? I am just wondering about the likelihood of your results being the rule or the exception...?

Stories like this definitely makes me want to start changing my own oil again...

Thanks.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Mar 6 2007, 12:44 AM) [snapback]400714[/snapback]</div>

To go to every car dealership in Winnipeg to grab a virgin oil sample, and send it off to be tested, would cost me a fortune. I have no iniative whatsoever to do so.

However, I did snoop around dealerships (Toyota, Honda, Chevy, and Ford) to see if they used a bulk lube dispenser system. I'm very familiar with such systems in industrial settings, so I know what to quickly look for. Want to know what all the tote bins here had in common?

All used a simple inverted pipe as a tote bin breather system. I know what desiccant breather filters look like, and saw zero evidence of such filters in use. The oil is automatically contaminated.

At least in the industrial setting, use of a tote bin bulk lube dispensing system with a simple inverted pipe breather is a strict no-no

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Mar 6 2007, 12:44 AM) [snapback]400714[/snapback]</div>

Three times over a two month period. The results were statistically similar: cheap crap bare-minimum-spec API oil, and *contaminated* at that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Mar 6 2007, 05:53 PM) [snapback]401236[/snapback]</div>

For sure... and I was not implying that you should do so, I was just wondering if the results you describe were from a single situation or something you have seen repeatedly. Thanks for the clarification.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Mar 6 2007, 05:53 PM) [snapback]401236[/snapback]</div>

Hmmm... I don't doubt it, and I am sure dealerships choose to do this (at risk of contamination) to minimize costs, since most people don't keep their cars from new until dead and unless someone like you goes to length to prove negligence, they will never be caught.

I don't have the statistic handy, but common knowledge is that most new car owners/lessees keep the car for only a few years before then trading; long before damage from contaminated oil has a chance to chance to rear it's ugly head. The poor guy who later purchases said car naturally assumes the previous owner was negligent, not that the dealer was using bad oil and is therefore stuck with a fat engine repair/rebuild bill. <_<

Of course, just as appliances that are not made as "durable" as in years past, it is in the dealer's interest to not take "best" care of your car, in order to trigger more after-sales business and new vehicle sales for them in the future, right?

Sure sounds like a conspiracy, doesn't it? :mellow:

Best option of course, is to just change the oil yourself so you know exactly what & how much goes in, of course if you are capable of doing so... B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boxster...WRX...Prius? @ Mar 3 2007, 09:54 PM) [snapback]399789[/snapback]</div>

Extending the interval is the single best benefit of a synthetic. There is no need for you to replace your oil except once a year (or even longer) or 10,000 miles. A simple way to tell is to pull the dipstick and look at the color of the oil... if it is gold, you are not even close to its degraded state.

From an environmental point of view, changing your oil too often is just as bad as wasting gasoline.

If you feel uncomfortable with extending your interval, then at least save your money and stick with normal oil (and just change it often).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Mar 7 2007, 12:29 PM) [snapback]401684[/snapback]</div>

Of course. As you stated, the dealership can minimize costs, even though the cost of contamination control is trivial, say $150 a year. A large volume dealer doing say 10 oil changes minimum a day, they wouldn't even notice the cost of installing a desiccant breather system and filter replacements.

On the same subject, look at how Toyota got burned by a handful of sludged motors. They were very tight-lipped if any of those motors that sludged had received dealership service, or if the sludged motors had been run on synthetics. Not one peep about that, otherwise they would have screamed "SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL WILL SLUDGE YOUR MOTOR!"

Not that my dealer or Toyota Canada was in any way shy about suggestion my use of Mobil 1 was creating the strange used oil lab readings. Only when I snagged a few virgin samples of their tote bin crap did they shut up, and I mean pronto.

I'm not sure if Toyota really solved the "sludge" issue. What did they do, insist on better quality lubes? No, they went from 7,500 mile to 5,000 mile intervals, one of the shortest in the industry.

So much for a company that purports to be "green" with their flagship "green" product.

And like you said, once off warranty the response will be "TFB you're SOL so KMA."

In the meantime, whether with my Prius or my very-soon-to-be-delivered FJ Cruiser, I'll keep doing routine used oil analysis. Just to be a thorn in their foot.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Mar 7 2007, 04:14 PM) [snapback]401952[/snapback]</div>

BTW, U.S. $ cost of a test is only $12. I think you said it cost about $20, but I guess that's Canadian.

The other thing is I'm waiting to get 3000 miles on my current oil before sending another sample off for testing, to see if it still indicates dilution with fuel. Then I'll do an oil change with a Spokane dealer and test a sample before I've gone 100 miles on it. If it turns out that there is a dilution problem, does synthetic hold up better under dilution, or is it likely to be an injector problem that will have to be fixed. I did have the injectors cleaned at 30,000 miles (whether I needed to or not).

Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ Mar 7 2007, 05:32 PM) [snapback]401983[/snapback]</div>

Hi Dave, before you do your next oil sampling make sure you have the Prius all hotted up. I bet the fuel dilution goes away. My first one was like that and Blackstone gently suggested it was just a newbie sampling error. And so it was.

Prius is so freaky about air/fuel ratio, it is hard to imagine that your fuel injectors are leaking, and yet everything else is running OK.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tochatihu @ Mar 7 2007, 06:57 PM) [snapback]402016[/snapback]</div>

Agree. I would suspect a leaking injector would give me significantly reduced mileage. Even with some of the shorter distances I've gone between stops, I'm still getting nearly 50 mpg. Not bad for this time of the year. A few weeks ago, it was well below 40 mpg, but there were a lot of very short trips. It was warmed up when I did the sampling, but probably not enough. I'll be sure I've gone at least 5 miles with the engine above 175 F. That's kind of hard to do this time of year, even with the grill blocked. It was colder then than it is now.

Right now at 8:46 p.m., it still 45F.
Dave M.

 

Dave, i dont think there is an issue with your Prius. your mileage is exactly where it should be considering the temps right now. tues, i got gas and it was in the low 70's. had to do my yearly run for misc things around seattle so spent the day on surface roads. ended up the day at 62 mpg. well, now im back to my normal driving and weather is back to the mid 50's, so i lose a bit off that every day. now down to 59.1 and will continue to drop to around 51-52. my last tank was boosted a bit by the driving i did tues before refilling. so its a bit higher than i would have normally gotten.

 

I too am going with Mobil 1, probably after break in at 600 miles. The Prius is as high tech as a car can get, so why not use a high tech oil?

My Porsche comes with Mobil 1 from the factory, and the recommended interval is 10,000 miles OR 2 years. How's that for saving the environment?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Texas911 @ Mar 8 2007, 08:19 AM) [snapback]402230[/snapback]</div>

I would wait to 5000 miles before switching out to Mobil 1 - same idea as the Porsche - don't change it too often early on to allow rings to seat properly.

PS: what year is your Porsche? my '03 Cabriolle calls for 15,000 miles between changes (not 10K).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ Mar 7 2007, 09:32 PM) [snapback]401983[/snapback]</div>

Wait a minute, you never mentioned anything about "injector cleaning." Just how exactly are they "cleaning" the injectors? And was that service done just before your alarming oil sample?

I ask as I'm aware of a couple of folks at the office who reported issues after taking advantage of a Canadian Tire injector service. One woman has a 2 year old Chevy Malibu that was running fine *before* she took it in for the injector "service." No CEL or any driveability issues, but the "service" was on sale.

After she got the car back, it had a slighly rough idle and the CEL was on. She mentioned that to the Canuck Tire service advisor, who told her - naturally - the light was on before they started the service. They wanted $65 to plug their scanner in, but she had enough common sense to get the hell out of there.

So she went to the Chevy dealer she bought her Malibu from, and they determined a plug was bad based on the code scanner. They asked just what happened to turn on the CEL and she mentioned the Canadian Tire injector "service."

Turns out they had a few vehicles show up with problems after taking advantage of a Canadian Tire injector "service." What they do is use a pressurized can of injector flush detergent, which they attach to the Schraeder valve that is used for pressure testing, which is on the fuel rail. They also have to disable the intank fuel pump, and usually that means reaching around by the fuel tank to disconnect the electrical connector.

What a lot of the Canadian Tire stores were doing instead was using vice grips to pinch off the flexible fuel line supply and return. In one case the vice grip actually damaged the fuel hose so badly it needed to be replaced.

Once running on the injector flush stuff, the motor will really misfire. It can also cause a lot of washing of cylinder walls and will almost always set a CEL.

The Chevy dealer does offer a fuel injector "flush" service, but this machine is plumbed into the fuel rail and the service is done with the motor OFF. They only recommend that sort of service if the motor already has severe driveability issues.

Seems to me, if an injector is already leaking, you'd have a CEL due to the vastly over-rich condition. You'd smell a "rotten egg" smell from the exhaust, as it would be running way too rich.