Synthetic or regular oil change?

The algorithm based oil life monitors look at several driving factors...engine temperature, engine load, outside air temperature, idling time, others. They have experimented with test engines and analysis of the oil looking mainly at the zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) anti-wear and anti-oxidation additive that is in all motor oil. As the ZDDP becomes depleted it is time for an oil change. By this experimentation they have developed standards for the oil life that are both accurate and conservative--if it says, 0%, there's still some safe operation remaining in the oil, but don't delay the maintenance. The oil life monitors that try to actually analyze the oil in real time have sensor reliability concerns.

ZDDP is a highly effective and low cost additive product that forms a microscopic hard anti-wear film on moving parts. There are other chemicals that work well but cost more. Unfortunately the "thio" part of the compound is sulfur which is a pollutant when some of the oil is burned in normal engine operation. The phosphate poisons the catalytic converter, so the ZDDP portion is made as low as possible with other compounds taking its place. Some oil makers use less ZDDP plus a molybdenum compound, others oil companies use less ZDDP plus a titanium compound. Either works better than just the ZDDP, but the cost is higher. And, more ZDDP is not better. Don't buy aftermarket oil additives. The amount and types of products the oil companies' organic chemists put into the oil is just right.

 

Are those two sentences at odds with each other? Anyway, I would go with the first sentence.

 

If there is an engine issue, having used oil analysis done by a reputable lab that shows that the oil is still good is protection against the manufacturer voiding the warranty if they find out you aren't following their change schedule. I think, technically, they have to prove the longer change intervals were the actual cause under the law.

Considering the testing costs almost as much as an oil change, and the additional hassle of it and potential legal battle, going this route is really only worth it over just doing the changes when the manual calls for them, is if you drive an excessive amount. Or if you think not wasting oil is important.

In that case, I suggest having the oil tested at the recommended oil change time of 10k miles, and then at regular intervals until the lab results say its time for a change. The lab should give you a recommendation for when to do the next test, which is made easier if you also test some fresh oil. Stick to the same oil, and test it at every change of the new interval for at least a year to cover potential seasonal changes. Or just play the odds of not having an engine issue within the warranty period.

 

I am new to the forum. My 3,000 mile '18 Prius Prime has already received it's first oil change. As a dealer, I installed Amsoil 0W-20 Signature Series (top of the line) 100% synthetic motor oil along with an Amsoil (Ea15K09) oil filter. This was performed to get the Amsoil in the engine and any metal fillings out of the crankcase. Since the oil is good for 1 year or 25,000 miles, I will be changing the oil myself once a year. (Federal law prevents Toyota from denying warranty work unless they can prove the oil caused engine damage.) I have also ordered a Dimple (world's strongest) neodymium oil drain plug magnet (12 mm dia. X 1.25 mm thread X 19 mm long) but I haven't decided when I'll install it. My 14 year old Prius with 214,000 miles has had the oil changed once a year, so I will do the same with my new Prime. I use 1/3 can of engine flush with each oil change because like many cars, the Prime is vulnerable to sludge build-up (not related to anything caused by the driver). I also have other DIY "tips" if anyone is interested. The Prime is expected to be the last new car I'll ever buy and I expect it to last several hundred thousand miles. The best oil and filters can keep a vehicle going a long, long time. I appreciate any ideas I can get from the members of this forum. Thanks.

 

You must really believe in this Amway oil and their other 'direct marketing' 'products'....
Did you split open the old oil filter to see if there were any "Metal shavings"? This is routine on aircraft.
And 'Sludge'.. really?

Can you reference your claim about not having to follow the 'Manufacturers Maintenance Schedule' ?

I have a bank courier buddy with several Prii in the 400k to 600k mile range and he only uses Mobil 1.
In the summer he'll go 20k miles on an oil change. The engines are still in great shape and don't use much oil.

Some longer EV range PHEV's are fine with 2 yrs on the oil. But they have an oil life monitor that looks at ICE usage.
Yours does not, and forces you to dump slightly used oil at the 10k mile mark, (If you don't use the ICE much).
That is if you choose to follow the Prescribed Maintenance Schedule. ( Most do...)

 

Things have changed.
I remember when oil change frequency recommendations were much shorter. Before the widespread usage of synthetics and synthetic blends.
I remember huge advertising campaigns by "Ruffy Lube" like operations proclaiming you should bring your vehicle in every 3000 miles.

I also remember doing it.

But I think engines, oils and recommendations have all changed.

I pretty much follow manufacturer recommendations, at first it was hard to be so patient. If you grew up with a history of changing much more frequently?

That being said, my recommendation is to follow manufacturers recommendations. BUT...
If a "early" oil change at your own expense is going to make you feel better? With a new vehicle? I say go ahead. There use to be a prevailing idea that you wanted to do a relatively early, quick change, with a new vehicle. I don't know if that is still valid thinking anymore.

The other mythology I've heard is that manufacturers provide a new vehicle "Break In" Oil and the factory. And that you should keep that oil in for the recommended duration.
I don't know how much of that is true, or simply urban myth.

When I got my Honda Fit...new...I patiently waited until the "Maintenance Minder" system recommended the Oil Change. It happened around 7000-8000 miles. For someone use to changing so much more frequently it was a little nerve wracking, but I think that's simply the way it is now.

Bottom line, is I think you can't go wrong following the recommendations in both duration and oil type.

 

With the switch to ultra low suflur gasoline, we should see are oil change intervals becoming longer. The sulfur content of fuels in Europe have been that way for awhile, and what we think is now a long time for one here is the shortest there.

 

Duddy, really....
"(Federal law prevents Toyota from denying warranty work unless they can prove the oil caused engine damage.)" No. They only need to prove that you did not follow their recommendations, and that your product might not meet the required standards. The Amsoil product with the 25,000 mile claim does not meet the Toyota requirements. It is not API Service Category SN and ILSAC GF-5. It says, "Use AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil in applications: 0W-20 (ASM): API SN (Resource Conserving)" It does not say that it meets that standard. In any case, what if you have an engine warranty claim and Toyota just stonewalls you? What do you do next? Hire an expensive lawyer? Rely on Amsoil's warranty?...have you read all the fine print there?...it would be a lot of trouble and uncertainty to rely on it. Also, the oil filter could be at fault, or claimed to be at fault. I'm sticking with Toyota filters and an oil that meets the spec in the owner's manual.

How many steel-against-steel or steel-against-iron parts are in the Prime engine? If there are quite a few, then the strong magnetic oil drain plug may offer some benefit. If there are very few, then the benefit is little.

The engine flush is useless. It's main benefit is when changing the type of oil (not just the brand) the old oil is greatly thinned so it drains more completely. Sludge in an engine is engine specific or caused by greatly exceeding the necessary oil drain interval. The Toyota sludge problem was 20 years ago; they've probably learned their lesson. In any case, all Primes are required to use synthetic oil which is much less prone to sludging.

 

I've visited various places like Jiffy Lube that offer $19.95 oil change specials, and across the board, they all tell me they WILL NOT put anything but a synthetic oil into a Prius, usually Mobil 1, and it will cost about $20-$25/qt plus other stuff.

AmsOil (not related to Amway other than the first two letters in their names) makes a great synthetic oil product. I used it for many years in several different cars. It's an MLM and consequently their products are overpriced, but they were always top quality IMO.

However, the local Toyota dealers here in the Phoenix area all charge $59 or so for an oil change (with filter) and they do a full inspection, and most even wash the car (exterior) if you ask them to. They're the best deal in town for an oil change on your Prius! And you don't have to worry about warranty issues.

(Hey, the biggest downside is that you might end up like me and go in for an oil change and leave with a new car!)

A service mgr at Toyota said they do not use Mobil 1, but rather a synthetic blend made exclusively for Toyota, which is why it's cheaper than other synthetics you could use. He said Mobile 1 and most other synthetics are fine, too.

They set the oil change reminder to go off at 5000 miles, but I've been told that the oil is rated for 10k between changes. My last Prius I bought came with 6 free oil changes, and my Prime has several as well. So by setting the lower mileage, they just get you to use up your freebies quicker. At 10k miles, my oil has always had a nice clear golden look to it, and it could probably go another 10k miles. That's a far cry from regular ICE cars I've had where the oil looked like black syrup after 5k miles.

 

It's the car that maker that sets the 10k oil change interval.
And with a Prime, depending on individual driving situations, you could be throwing away oil with very few 'Gas Miles' on it at 10k miles. This could be why your oil looks good at 10k mile oil changes.

What's so hard about engineering an 'Oil Life Monitor' that calculates 'Gas Miles'?
Some PHEV's have this and it allows you to visit the dealership once every 2 years , depending on EV/Gas miles.

 

Honda's Maintenance Minder apparently monitors several factors, does a countdown in percent, and from 15% down displays a code as to what needs doing. Typically an oil change, and/or oil filter change, and tire rotation, and various other items may display: brake inspection transmission fluid change, and so on. In my experience it got to 15% around 8500 kms.

Toyota Canada tells me to change the oil and filter on our 3rd gen every 8000 km or six months, whichever comes first. We're doing at most 9,000~10,000 km per year, so I stick with the 6 month interval. The cost for me is trivial, and it's something to do.

 

Dig, I do not believe there is a syn blend 0W-20 motor oil. All I've found are full synthetic. I don't believe what the service writer told you about, "a synthetic blend made exclusively for Toyota," any more than I believe their 5,000 mile oil change recommendation. Dealerships buy the cheapest bulk oil that meets the minimum spec from the car maker. What we see in the quart bottles with the car maker name on them is an ordinary oil from one of the usual oil companies labeled for that customer. Mobil 1 full syn oils are one of many top brands that will keep our engines humming for a very long time.

Amsoil makes very good lubes. There are other makers of equally excellent lubes who do not engage in the same level of hype. I do not know who makes the oil filters for the Amsoil label. I'm pretty sure Amsoil does not own an oil filter factory. (Making oil is easy. Buy the base oil from any of several refiners. Buy the additive package from any of several chemical companies. Mix, stir, bottle.)

I agree completely with what Bill said about a smart oil monitor and the actual useful life of the engine oil. The only reason I do 1 year or 10k changes is to keep the engine warranty in force. On the other hand, Toyota's schedule gets us into the dealership at least twice yearly so we get accustomed to going there for the service--the dealership makes a thin margin on new car sales, a better margin on used car sales, and the service & parts departments are the gold mine.

 

Is that because of the colder weather up there Mendel? And the brake fluid change, every 3 years?
And I agree, it's something to do.

 

The shorter interval in Canada is still a mystery. I just checked the sulfur levels in Canadian gasoline, and they use the same ones as the US. Concerns about the local climate is the only reason I have.

For those whose hybrid motor oil has few actual ICE miles on it, or still looks good, you can use it in the lawnmower, or even another car. An older diesel might even be able to use it as fuel. I've used nasty looking stuff as bar oil for the chainsaw.

Zero weight oils are only full synthetic, and possibly a true synthetic in the US, because the petroleum based oils can't be adjusted that low.

 

From Forbes:
"Crude oil exports to Canada continued to grow, reaching 427,000 BPD in 2015. Canada remains the predominant destination for U.S. crude oil exports," Our Canadian friends are getting the good U.S. produced Black Gold.

It's odd how Toyota recommends various oil change intervals, (and different viscosities?) for the same Prius in different parts of the world.

 

Climate can be factor for the different viscosities. I remember car manuals recommending them for different seasons. It might also be a factor for change intervals.

Sulfur content of fuel is a factor for oil life. Sulfur contamination of the oil from the fuel is a part of what turns oil black over time. Then a market may simply have lower quality oils available.

 

Thanks Trollbait. You are in Pa? It's gets darn cold there, and the entire East Coast. Similar to Canada?
I'm in Southern California, which basically has the same mild weather all year. It wouldn't hurt me to go 10K between oil changes. I don't know, it's pretty confusing. All this heat is not good for the oil either.

 

How's the fit on the Dimple? Just want to make sure I won't be stripping any threads on my Prime's oil pan.

I've heard some unfavorable reviews concerning the fit of the Gold brand magnetic plugs.

I was also wondering why you chose a 19mm shank versus the Toyota standard 12mm shank?

 

I'm really not sure why, it's mainly just different jurisdictions I think. I mean, North Dakota, Alaska?

Regardless of Toyota's recommendations, you're free to double up. Just dub it severe service, which is actually not that far off for a lot of owners. Short trips in particular are one severe service criteria.

 

Hey folks! Toyota brand oil is made by Mobil Oil, and is Mobil 1 with Toyota's additive package.
All 0W-20 oils are synthetic oils there are no blends in this weight. With that said Mobil 1 is marketed as synthetic oil, but is not a true 100% synthetic oil. Only their 0W-40 European weight oil is a pure synthetic. This is what I am using in my GEN 3.

If you want to make sure your getting Toyota oil at the dealer ask to have bottle oil used, not their oil from their drums.