Talk to a Cop- The good, bad, and ugly!

People have talked theri way out of tickets to me. I define this as me planning on giving a ticket when I walk up...then changing my mind. A lot of people think they talked me out of it when I never planned on ticketing them anyway AND vice versa.

Polite and courteous is always good. It doesn't do any good to speak politely AND telling the officer he is wrong, as in Well, sir, I respect your opinion, sir, but I was NOT doing such and such. Is better to say something like "I didn't realize...or I thought I did....

There are those out there that will claim that the only POSSIBLE way to get out of a ticket is to start with a total denial. Yes, officers will use any admission you make in court. Non-committal statements are a wash.

Since talking out of a ticket is dependent upon the officer...I have used thes, 1)tell me a story I have NEVER heard before (getting harder all the time), 2) make me laugh, and 3) start with admitting you erred. Again, these only work for me.

Locker room talk, after shift, ALWAYS includes the "jerk" who, upon being stopped, acts obnoxious and demanding. They ALWAYS get a ticket.

Oh, for the people of color...there are officers who, upon you playing the race card, will always warn because they don't want the hassle or the "stigma" of the race complaint.

Regretfully, I have warned some people of color simply because the violation was not TOO severe and I didn't want said hassle. So, use it if you wish....no one loses but your culture in the end...this works best in lily white communities or those with underlying racial tension.

Here, I will rationalize....this is a "make up" for all the years the cops really DID hassle you. Oh, and for all you non-people of color....until you start realizing most race based complaints are false and support your cops...this will continue.

Ladies, all officers I speak to say a crying jag is always a ticket. Most also say flaunting your cleavage gets a ticket as well.

 

In Ohio, assault requires an INTENT to do harm coupled with the means. So, this could not be an assault in Ohio. However, depending on the circumstances, it could be disorderly conduct....doing an act which serves no lawful purpose and causes inconvenience, annoyance or alarm to others...

BTW, the DA cannot "overturn" things...all the DA can do is refuse to prosecute what the police bring in.

On a little side note, Police arrest based upon probable cause to BELIEVE a violation occured. Prosecutors/DA's review and IF they think they cannot win or if they think the officer applied the law wrong...they drop it to a lesser charge or drop it altogether. It does not mean the officer was wrong. The only time an officer is officially wrong is if !) the prosecutor says so...then you can sue, or 2) the dept. disciplines the officer after you complain.

 

Very astute of you KTPhil, part of the problem with your first argument is what is "truly hazardous" and what is "penny-ante". I earlier posted about the problem with getting into the habit of "rolling stops". Many crashes, particularly the minor fender benders, are a result of a lapse in concentration. Bending a fender by rolling a stop. or right on red, etc. is minor until you hit a motocycle.bicycle/pedestrian. This is not a simple call.

You are right on about the perception that getting a ticket is part of a quota. I wish I know how to fix that...other than what I am attempting here. Go talk to your local Chief, if you can, or the highest operational commander you can.

Man, again, GREAT point about warnings and other people seeing the person pulled over. Warnings are pretty worthless actually, losing money will make you behave longer. But theree are TWO good reasons for officers to stop people in the middle of the road and inconvenience traffic. 1) out in the open, if something goes ugle, there are more witnesses, and 2) Lot's more people see you out there and will "think" for a bit.

You saying what the officer's attitude will be is dangerous. Unless you have been a cop or talked in DEPTH to a cop about traffic, this is supposition only. Again, I ave always had a quota (performance standard) when I was a line officer and now I utilize one as a supervisor and I do not think this is the case with the VAST majority of officers

Lastly, and regrettably, the lazy officer who realizes on the last week of the month that he is way behind will write chickens"it stuff to get his nuymbers. As a supervisor, I noptice that and I work on it.

 

Yep, you are right. There are severtal reasons for this, though I do it VERY seldom (less than 6 times a year)

1) Officers have a personal life and court is a pain...maybe I can reduce court time
2)Some officers truly are trying to give people a break, they may hate writing tickets but know they have to, thus reducing the pain
3)some officers don't think there should be extra points for high speeds, this is their way of protesting
4)You are exactly right and that is the reason (I say this because I don't know about other courts, you cannot do this in Ohio because Ohio REQUIRES the exact charge to be in the charging document.)

We have an officer who does this all the time. All his tickets are 45/35 zone, when I read the story, it will say clocked at 49 or 51 or such and such. I asked him why one day and he said, allows them to pay by mail. (over 21 over the speed limit here requires court appearance)

 

Jay, thanks for the Canadian perspective. I do not know how it works there. In the US, the "political" part depends a lot on the jurisdictional makeup. Sheriff's are elected, so deputies are sensitive to the power base. In cities with a mayoral gov't, the mayor is electerd and agin, this is a reality. In most bigger and modern cities, there is a City Manager type gov't. The CM is not elected, he appoints a police chief, so there is a disconnect. I have rarely experienced the political stuff. It usually happens when the offense is a felony and now an ELECTED District Atty gets involved.

There is no doubt that a police officer who commits offenses is hard to deal with, particularly if it is within his/her own jurisdiction. If that happens to anyone, then you need to go to a higher up commander or call IA.

I have never experienced a "harrassment" campaign though I have been part of a "let's show zero tolerance" to a person who was harassing an officer's family when he was at work. He was easy though, he couldn't help but get in trouble (mostly Driving under suspension)

Yes, some police think because they ARE police, they can do anything. I work hard to keep my officers mindful of that. Our jurisdiction is not the favorite in the arera bewcause we have arrested neighboring cops for DUI. (we HATE DUI in our town)

Yes, there are bad apples, Yes, ALL bad apples need rooted out. What can I say. Like any group of humans, there are bads ones. The PUBLIC needs to stop using PD's as a social experiment. You know, lower the standards, be all inclusive....Do that with Parks and rec, street workers, sanitation, etc....DEMAND only the BEST for your cops.

 

Yep, on the face of it, sounds bad. In our jurisdiction, cost is the same if you go to court or not. UUnless you plead Not Guilty, then if you are found guilty, you have to pay for any subpoena costs for witnesses (except officers)

 

There have been several good studies on speed cameras that just flash your speed. They are very effective in the 85th percentile.

Traffic engineers have found that 85% of the public drives at a safe speed. They occasionally lose focus and go too fast, when they see a flashing monitor, they immediately slow down. It is a great system. BUT, 15% of drivers are chronic speeders (are you one???) They see the signs and DON'T slow down.

If there was a way to know if a person is an 85%'er - (Squid :lol: :lol: :lol: ) or a 15%'er, then warnings and tickets would be easy. I would ONLY warn 85%'ers

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

It is highly unlikely a cop called your house. Police organizations, the biggest nationally is the FOP, do fund raisers. They call just like any fund raiser and talk in a manner that you will ASSUME they are real cops.

I highly encourage you...if you really want to support your local cops, to call them, ask if there is a local org you can donate to, and DONATE directly to them. No cuts off the top, no admin fees, etc.

I recommend saying "no thanks" to ALL fund raising callers. Ask them right up...are you a sworn officer? What dept. do you work for?...What is their phone number so I can verify? If they ares still with you and you call and verify...then you have run into that rare bird whewre the cop actually does the work.. I would give to them.

Oh, our FOP does this...so I am familiar w/ the workings.

 

Easy, you DO have to want to help people and you HAVE to believe in something biggere than you to be a good cop.

 

No surprise there!

 

You should be proud, MSP has a great rep amongst law enforcement

 

Wow, great point. Following too closely (432.09 in our city ordinance) is tough. Nowhere is thisd defined. I am one of the few officers who have written these.

Here is why it is so tough

1) it is not defined
2) most cars cops see are going the opposite direction, so we only see them for...3-4 seconds? Did the guy just get cut off, is he getting ready to pass, etc?
3)ALL my following too close tickets were when I was going the same direction, pacing at a set speed, and followed for a few blocks (in other words, no excuses)

I hate tailgators and am on a hunt this year to stop more. While it is a huge problem, that is one tough ticket to write.

 

Two incidences do not make any conclusions. Daniel, you want to see what you want to see.

Police officers are not taxi drivers. My department requires rear seat, handcuffed transport. Before we put cages in the cars, we transported in the front seat and our neighboring city had cages and put them in the back. Nothing to do with institutionalized anything.

Civil disobedience gets lots of PRESS. So cops will do UNSAFE things to look good. Intox persons are UNPREDICTABLE. You can be non-violent 1000 times and then decide to go nuts. I would discipline any officer who violated these safety rules to "be nice".

We have an abortuary (sorry, abortion clinic) in ouur city and have had civil unresat. They are all treated the same, handcuffed in back, put behind cage.