tank filling drama

This evening was the 2nd pump at a completely different station to have this problem. I've filled up at both places in the past without issue (as well as my other car), numerous times. I've read about this happening to others on PriusChat in the past but it hadn't with me before. But now that it has, twice, I'm considering trading the car in. It's worse than inconvenient not to be able to do something so simple and I've never had another car do this, who has time to fight getting fuel into the car? Sorry, I'm just very frustrated by this. The temperature drops to a "cool" 47 degrees and I can no longer fill the car up. It's ridiculous.

 

Yes, very frustrating.

Since you know that your car had consumed and you needed to add five gallons, I would say just keep pumping until you've added five gallons, realizing that the pump will click off after each 0.1 gallon that is being added.

The bladder tank design was essentially the same on both Classic and 2G. The good news is that a new design was implemented on Highlander Hybrid, first shipped in June 2005, which then was also used on Camry Hybrid and 3G Prius.

 

I duno ... if he's only putting in 7 gallons? Only adding .2 gallon after that, when he's on the blinking pip? That's hardly tantamount to chronic anything. But I've added over TWO gallons after the pump clicks off numerous times ... knowing there's still another gallon or more that can go into the tank. If you're keeping a real close scrutiny on your consumption, you're in no danger of damaging the charcoal canister. The bladder is notorious for causing re-fuel issues. I DID have one experience in '04 with gas shooting out from running the pump low ... before I began monitering fuel in/fuel consumed. It was quite the specticle ... looking like the exorsist movie . I immediately slammed the cap onto the nozzle to prevent more gas from spilling. It's quite a site to behold when it happens.

Requisite 5 gallons? Ours has always reset upon >3 gallons. I'm pretty sure that's the benchmark I've seen others regularly post too.

 

Thank you, Patrick. I guess that's what I'll have to do. I was in a hurry last night and couldn't take the time to deal with it.

 

This happens to me very often, and not only with Prius - My mother's Peugeot 107 suffers the same issue. Just pull the nozzle out a litte way out, to provide for some air intake, and you should be able to fill up at full speed. Works fine for me. Just be carefull not to overfill.

 

Thanks -- I actually did try that but it didn't work. I pulled out the nozzle completely for about 10 seconds, several times. I would have been stuck putting in .1 gallon at a time last night without any question, I think. I'll just have to be prepared to deal with it next time it happens.

Edit: Well, I went to get gas again today. I've driven about 70+ miles since my attempt last night (I have a longer commute, which is why I bought the Prius when gas hit $4/gallon last year). I went to a different (third) gas station. This time it stopped right around 3 gallons, and I've used up at least 1 1/3 gallons since yesterday. I took out the nozzle for 10 seconds several times, tried pumping at different speeds, put the nozzle in different depths, etc -- but nothing worked. I had to pump about .025 gallons in at a time (I couldn't even get .1 per try). I finally did get 5 gallons in and my gauge registers full. It's warmer today, too, so there must be some issue with the bladder tank.

 

Well, I don't think that's normal. There is probably some problem with your car. As I said, my does this too sometimes, but it is by far not as serious as what you describe. In your place, I would have the car checked.

 

I have a 2004 Prius. What is the proper procedure when filling and the pump switches off. Should I just hang up the hose or pump in another few tenths for rounding? I do not want to have any issues with the fuel system so anyone with expertise in this area kindly chime in.

 

This question reopens a hot debate. Toyota recommends filling until the click, then stopping. This is what I do with my 2006. That said, my 2006 never exhibits the refilling problem described in this thread. With a Gen II Prius suffering from this filling problem, you have to be more creative. In that case you need some idea of how much fuel it needs to be full, and use that as a target value.

Keep in mind that the North American Gen II Prius, such as yours, has a fuel tank bladder that introduces variation in the tank volume. You will never know exactly how much fuel the tank can hold, or how much usable fuel remains. You can have a pretty good idea, but never an exact number.

Tom

 

Congratulations on your persistence...

You could try, but if the check engine light is not on then I doubt that anything will be done. Since NC has a 2008, the car should be equipped with the latest engineering changes for the fuel system.

 

I fill Pearl until the pump clicks off. If you don't want to mess around stop there. I find I can get in another 4-5 litres after that, so another 1-1 1/2 US gallon. I do that by holding the nossle -out- of the filler tube and allowing the fuel to "jump" the gap. This also allows me to actually -see- the fuel in the filler tube, and know when it really -is- full. I have to stop often to allow the bubbles to subside. I finally stop -before- the fuel level is visible, which can be estimated by how long fuel flows until I have to stop. I get 100 to 150 km of extra range doing it this way, and repeatable tank fills (my calculated mileage numbers don't vary much). After nearly three years no fuel system problems have occurred, so I doubt I'm causing any problems.

You would be correct if you accused me of wasting time doing this, as I usually fill up at just around 1/2 tank. But I like to know that in case of an emergency, I have lots of fuel in the car!

 

Maybe that's exactly what I need to do. If the nozzle isn't in the filler tube it certainly isn't going to shut off, and I can watch for overflow. Inconvenient, but not any more than pumping .025 gallons at a click.

I'm actually considering trading in the car now. I'm a little aggravated with Toyota about this issue, but I could get a new Prius w/out the bladder tank if I can find a Prius II somewhere (which is comparable to what I have now).

 

Hang in there NC Prius, I get frustrated with the gas fill up too, but the Prius has a lot of other advanages. I have always kept close track of my mileage and keep a log of my gas purchases. I was disappointed with the bladder design, and the difficulties with fill ups. It would be nice to be able to consistantly fill the tank and know how many miles you can drive. I can only look forward to someday getting a Gen III, with no bladder, then all will be right with the world again. Yea right!

 

I too thought negatively about the bladder, until I figured out that it really is an advantage. You can drive the car forever without bringing it back to full without any negative consequences to the tank. You can't do that in a regular gas tank because of rust.

So I'll let it get down to one pip, fill the tank, but not overfill, and get a couple of extra 5 gallon cans. Then when the car is low again, just put one of the cans in. And then the other can. You can thus go a long time without completely filling up, and this will help your MPG that slight amount because you're not hauling around another 40 lbs or so of gasoline.

And, I too have had the problem of non-shutoff on a rare occasion. The worst one wasn't long ago, but when I figured out there was more going in than there should be I stopped, and waited. Then I pulled the nozzle out ever so slightly, heard the fuel coming up, and put the nozzle back in. I did that several times, and that released the pressure without shooting gasoline back out. Whenever you're putting in more than 8 gallons you need to watch things very closely.

 

Thanks -- after finding out how much I would get to trade in my current Prius I doubt I'll be going that route after all. But I have a crazy question (I'm ignorant of mechanics). Is it physically/mechanically impossible to replace the bladder with a regular 10-gallon tank in the 2G Prius, or is it just prohibitively expensive?

 

Prius outside North America do not have the bladder within the fuel tank, so it's not impossible.

However the North America engine ECU expects to check the bladder integrity periodically. If there's no bladder, the check engine light will come on and a DTC will be logged.

 

Thank you, Patrick. Sounds like it should be a check bladder light! So is there no way to disengage that check? I'm surprised mine hasn't logged a DTC if I can't pump gas. What kind of integrity does it check for if I can't fill the tank? Just for the existence of the bladder?

 

One check is to see whether gasoline vapor exists in the space between the bladder and the shell of the tank. Also, a pressure check is performed. If you want to learn more, go to http://autoshop101.com/
and find this article: Hybrid13 Fuel and EVAP System.pdf

The engine ECU performs the check and you can't disable that. I assume that Prius shipped outside the US have a different ECU version.

 

This isn't a physical/mechanical reason.. but removing the bladder might be considered tampering with an emissions control device, which is a federal crime.

Not that anyone would ever find out..

 

Thanks again for your responses. If it is a crime and yet could be done, I wouldn't bother. It's not worth it. Plus, hopefully I wouldn't be able to find someone to do it if I didn't know any better, or at least who would warn me ahead of time so I wouldn't.

Thanks again Patrick. The Prius is definitely an interesting car even with the frustrations. At this point I'll have to either deal with the pump problem until I can't any longer, or hopefully it will go away. It's only been for the last 3 fillups so maybe some odd circumstances caused it. I didn't have this problem last winter with much colder weather than what we have now.